Gut Health and Weight Management: Beyond Dieting

Gut Health and Weight Management: Beyond Dieting

Adapted from episode 111 of The Perfect Stool podcast and edited for readability, with Lindsey Parsons, EdD, Gut Health Coach.

If you’ve been struggling with feeling comfortable in your body, weight gain or weight loss resistance, and wondering if maybe your gut health or gut health issues might have something to do with it, beyond the obvious regarding your diet, I wanted to address that today.

Before I go into that, I should mention that before I focused in on gut health, I worked with clients on sustainable weight loss without dieting, because I think it’s really important that any lifestyle changes you make be sustainable in the long-term. I’m not in favor of, nor do I recommend, low-calorie diets, crash or fad diets, because severely restricting your food intake can disrupt normal bodily functions, doesn’t promote sustainable long-term weight loss and can result in muscle loss and a reduction in your basal metabolic rate, which plays a crucial role in calorie burning. And even worse, undereating often causes your body to store calories as fat. It is not recommended for individuals to consume fewer than 1,200 calories per day unless you’re being supervised by a doctor and I’ve often seen people on such low calorie diets that started to lose weight only when they started eating more.

I also rarely recommend long-term extreme diets like carnivore or ketogenic diets, perhaps with the exception of people who have diagnosed type 2 diabetes that’s in need of immediate and extreme attention. And I think that self-acceptance is very important at whatever size your body naturally rests when you’re eating a healthy diet 95% of the time and exercising regularly, getting good sleep, managing and reducing stress and practicing all of the health-supportive behaviors we all hear so much about. And part of that self-acceptance is consuming media that highlights and supports diverse body types and sizes and reducing exposure to media that exclusively promotes a certain body type or filtered or altered images of unrealistic bodies. And I also think it’s very important, especially if you have any disordered eating behaviors like binge eating, emotional eating, anorexia or bulemia, to address the mental health component of weight gain, especially if you have a high level of Adverse Childhood Events, known as ACEs, that are highly correlated with obesity. If that’s part of your history, I’d recommend looking into trauma-focused therapies, which include modalities like somatic experiencing, AEDP, EMDR and neurotherapy. If you’ve gone through therapy but only traditional CBT-type talk therapy or Cognitive Brain Training, I’d recommend you look into these other modalities in conjunction with whatever other interventions you’re considering.

That being said, research over the last 20+ years into gut bacteria has shed light on its pivotal role in regulating weight and weight loss. So you may have heard about early studies suggesting that a key marker in the microbiome of obese individuals was an excess of gram positive bacteria in the Firmicutes phylum, in particular as it related to gram-negative Bacteroidetes and a high Firmicutes to Bacteroidetes ratio, the two principal phyla of bacteria in the human microbiome. However, these results have been called into question in a resequencing of the DNA from 9 of those previous studies. It was found that methodological differences in sample processing and DNA sequence analysis, interpretive bias and confounding factors that weren’t accounted for such as exercise and altitude, which have been shown to impact the gut microbiota, may have been responsible for these results. Further studies in animals and then in humans over the course of 5 days have shown that the composition of the gut microbiota can change rapidly when subjects are fed different diets. In particular, one study showed that a 5-day animal-based diet increased the abundance of bile-tolerant organisms from the genuses Alistipes, Bilphila and Bacteroides and decreased the level of Firmicutes from the genus Roseburia as well as the species Eubacterium rectale and Ruminococcus bromine, which metabolize dietary plant polysaccharides.

What I believe is a more important factor to consider with regard to weight loss resistance and/or weight gain is lipopolysaccride or LPS, an endotoxin that creates inflammation in the body and is released by and is a component of the cell wall of gram negative bacteria. Studies have shown that elevated blood levels of LPS are associated with prediabetes, diabetes and obesity, while additional studies have shown that translocated gut bacteria are the origin of that LPS. One of the reasons beyond diet that many people end up with elevated levels of gram negative bacteria, in particular from the Proteobacteria phylum, is use of oral antibiotics. As I’ve described in previous podcasts, antibiotics reduce the body’s ability to produce butyrate, the primary food for the cells lining your colon, which comes form the fermentation of fiber in the colon by butyrate-producing bacteria primarily from the Clostridium cluster of the Firmicutes phylum. In animal experiments, 3 days of oral antibiotics decimated the gut’s ability to produce butyrate from fiber and increased oxygen levels in the colon, which is an alternate fuel source for these cells lining the colon. This oxygenation of the colon produces a wonderful habitat for gram negative proteobacteria because they are facultative anaerobes, meaning they can exist in the presence of oxygen. This can then lead to a vicious cycle where proteobacteria continue to dominate, and the colon fails to recover its preferred hypoxic, or oxygen-free state, because of lack of butyrate, and butyrate-producing bacteria that are obligate anaerobes are wiped out. What’s more, a high-sugar diet in rats has been shown to increase proteobacteria, one of the reasons for which I recommend that people eat a super healthy, sugar and flour-free diet while on antibiotics.

The domination of proteobacteria then creates a vicious cycle of high LPS in the body, promoting inflammation, blood sugar dysregulation and increased weight gain. Likely because of this phenomenon, probiotic bacteria that restore the balance of butyrate producers and also mucin-degraders like Akkermansia muciniphila, which reside in the mucous lining of a healthy colon and live in symbiosis with the butyrate producers, have been shown to decrease hemoglobin A1C, a longer-term marker of blood sugar. The first product on the market of this kind, which contains 3 strains of anaerobic, butyrate-producing bacteria, was Pendulum’s Glucose Control*, which has the strains Clostridium butyricum, Clostridium beijerinckii, Anaerobutyricum hallii and Akkermansia muciniphila. While it’s not inexpensive (a monthly supply will run you $177/month via my Fullscript Dispensary, which includes the discount I give my followers), the company’s study on it showed a reduction in hemoglobin A1C of 0.6% and a 32.5% reduction in post-pradial glucose spikes after 12 weeks. You can also get just the Akkermansia* and the Clostridium butyricum* in separate products that are more reasonably priced, which I’ll link to in the show notes.

Because SIBO or small intestine bacterial overgrowth can also cause an overgrowth of proteobacteria, with Klebsiella, Citrobacter and E Coli being three of the most common overgrown bacteria in SIBO, I have also struggled with an overgrowth of proteobacteria, since I have post-infectious IBS which is essentially autoimmune SIBO that keeps recurring because of poor small intestine motility. As a result, I’ve tried Butyricum*, Pendulum’s Clostridium butyricum probiotic, and have found that it is very effective in firming up stool, which is a good indication of butyrate-production in my colon, which slows colon motility. I have found, however, that I can only handle ½ capsule a day, as a full capsule lead to downright constipation and sometimes pain and cramping. At ½ capsule it’s a perfect adjunct for keeping me in steadily perfect stool, along with tributyrin supplementation, the preferred form of butyrate for supplements, which I also have found indispensable in the face of a likely lifelong recurrent Hydrogen SIBO issue.

In addition, direct supplementation with butyrate in various forms has been shown in animal studies to positively affect the function and metabolism of fat tissue, increase insulin sensitivity and help with body weight control. For humans, results have varied between individuals, and I personally only recommend butyrate to people who have loose stool or diarrhea, as it will constipate you unless you use it at very small doses. Its success in weight control in animal studies is likely due to its help in turning around the vicious cycle of proteobacteria dominance in the colon and the subsequent release of LPS. Because of its unpleasant taste and odor as well as absorbability, the preferred forms of butyrate are tributryin, which is what I put in my tributyrin supplement Tributyrin-Max, which is 750 mg a capsule of tributryin, or the CyLoc™ form, an alpha dextrin fiber matrix butyric acid complex, used in Probutyrate*, which is only 300 mg a pill if you want a lower dose, which is more appropriate if you’re starting with firm stool or AuRx*, if you want a powder. Both Probutyrate and AuRx are Tesseract products, and you can find all of these in my Fullscript Dispensary at a discount. If you do have firm but incomplete evacuation or a sense that there’s more to go, I’d recommend starting a low dose butyrate supplement like Probutyrate once every 3 days.

Of course, along with taking probiotics or butyrate, I’d recommend increasing fiber intake through 5-9 servings a day of fresh fruits and vegetables, vegetables primarily, including ½ cup of beans, chick peas, peas or lentils on a daily basis to feed the microbes you’re working to restore in your colon.

Another way in which gut health is connected to weight loss resistance is through low stomach acid. Because sufficient stomach acid is necessary for breaking down proteins into amino acids, if you have low stomach acid, you may become deficient in an amino acid called l-carnitine. L-carnitine is found primarily in animal foods, most abundantly in beef and lamb, as well as formed by the body from the essential amino acids lysine and methionine. Because of this, I often find vegetarians and vegans are deficient in l-carnitine as well. L-carnitine is one of two molecules necessary for bringing fatty acids into the Krebs Cycle for production of ATP or energy. The other is vitamin B2 or riboflavin*. While researching for the podcast, I also happened upon a study that showed that riboflavin supplementation at doses of 50 mg or 100 mg a day also increased butyrate production in the colon, coincidentally. So if you’re struggling with weight loss resistance coupled with low energy (which happens when your fats are being stored and not converted into ATP), and you don’t have a blood sugar dysregulation issue indicated by high fasting glucose or high hemoglobin A1C, you may want to check your fatty acid metabolism through an Organic Acids Test* and/or try supplementing with l-carnitine* or acetyl-l-carnitine* to see if it will spark some weight loss. Typical doses are in the range of 3000 mg/day for l-carnitine when there is a deficiency, some of which can be taken in the form of acetyl-l-carnitine* if you’re also struggling with brain fog or poor memory or other signs of low energy in your brain. And a B complex is often also helpful, so a good quality B complex with appropriate amounts and forms of the various B vitamins is the best choice if you’re trying to cover all your bases with fatty acid metabolism. You’ll be wanting to get at least 50 mg of B2 if you have an identified deficiency.

And then on top of that, you could also start a trial of Betaine HCl*, or supplementary stomach acid, to see if that will help you digest protein better. The usual way is by taking 1 pill with meals with animal protein for a couple days, then moving to 2 pills per meal and up to 5 per meal until you feel reflux, warmth or burning in your chest, then you will want to back down to the previous dose.

Then you should looking at causes for low stomach acid. First, maybe your sodium intake is too low. Salt or sodium chloride, is one component of stomach acid. If you eat no processed foods and salt lightly, you’re likely falling short of the goldilocks levels of sodium, which is between something like 500 and 2300 mg/day, although some sources recommend keeping it under 1500 mg/day. And of course it’s better to choose a high quality salt like himalayan pink salt* or Redmond Real Salt* or one of these good quality salts that have trace minerals rather than just regular store-bought salt.

If you have any signs of gastritis, or inflammation of the lining of the stomach, like gnawing, aching or burning or pain in your stomach (and note that’s different from reflux in your esophagus which can be from low stomach acid), nausea, vomiting, a feeling of fullness in your upper abdomen after eating, trouble with acidic foods, or a known history of H. pylori or ulcers, this can also be at the root of low stomach acid. Healing H pylori, or addressing gastritis first may be necessary as you don’t want to add Betaine HCl or digestive enzymes for that matter, to a stomach that’s already inflamed. You can learn more about that in episode 34 called Upper Digestive Issues.

Next, Candida overgrowth in the gut can also be related to weight gain and weight loss resistance, causing sugar cravings and hormonal imbalances. This can come about from overuse of antibiotics as well as a diet high in sugar and simple carbohydrates. If you have a history of heavy antibiotic use, have a white or yellowish coating on your tongue, crave carbs and sugar, have a history of yeast infections, are usually cold, have fungus in your toenails or have brain fog, these are some of the key symptoms pointing to possible a systemic candida infection. While candida is a normal resident of your gut, an overgrowth of this yeast can lead to systemic candidiasis, where it forms hyphae or tails that poke out holes in between cells lining the intestines, giving it entry into the bloodstream. The only reliable way I’ve found to assess candida in the gut is through an Organic Acids Test. The D-arabinitol marker on the Organix, Metabolomix or NutrEval tests by Genova* is the most studied marker of candida, but I’ve also had good results with the Mosaic (formerly known as Great Plains) Organic Acids Test*, which has a marker called Arabinose. You can get some sense of how systemic and entrenched the candida infection is by how high your level is on these markers. The reference range on Arabinose tops out at 29, and for D-arabinitol it tops out at 36, and I’ve seen clients with results in the 300’s, just to give you some sense of how high it can go, although I’d consider anything in the yellow or red on the Organix or above the reference range on the Mosaic OAT to be treatment-worthy.

To combat candida overgrowth and facilitate weight loss, antifungal herbs and fatty acids are usually needed often for as long as 8 months in more severe cases, along with binders like GI Detox* to catch diet off at first and prevent severe Herxiemer reactions, which is when you feel like you have the flu, as you start killing off bacteria and candida with antimicrobials. And then often I’ll add in a biofilm disruptor into the protocol, often in the second round of antimicrobials. And note that I will typically change antimicrobials for each two-month round in order to prevent any resistance to the products. For a lighter case of candida that’s less symptomatic, serum bovine immunoglobulins might be sufficient to reduce levels. After treating candida, you can restore the gut lining by supplying essential building blocks for mucosal lining repair like glutamine and herbs like DGL, marshmallow root, aloe vera and slippery elm and nutrients like zinc l-carnosine*. I usually add the probiotic S boulardii* as well for candida, as it inhibits candida’s adhesion, morphological transition and virulence. Along with that, I recommend a diet free of added sugar, refined grains, dairy, gluten, yeast, white potatoes and for 2 weeks, fruit, after which time all fruit but bananas are okay. I prefer people follow this diet while on antimicrobials for as long as they can, knowing that realistically if it will take 8 months of antimicrobials, they may not be able to persist the whole time on such a strict diet.

If none of the above work for you, one more drastic method for changing your gut microbiome for weight loss may be through fecal microbiota transplantation, or FMT. FMT is the process of using a healthy stool specimen and transplanting it into the gastrointestinal tract of a recipient for the purpose of improved health. This counteracts the dominance of pathogenic bacteria in the intestines, ideally creating permanent changes to the microbiome. FMT from a healthy donor has demonstrated a remarkable 90% success rate in curing the antibiotic-resistant bacterial disease Clostridium difficile (C. diff), which is a prevalent infection that occurs in hospitals in the United States, affecting over 500,000 Americans annually and causing 14,000 deaths a year. The transplantation of stool from a healthy donor introduces protective bacteria, overwhelming pathogenic bacteria and offering a potential cure for illnesses originating from an unhealthy gut microbiome.

Regarding weight loss, I do have to say that results are mixed and more research is needed to fully understand the relationship between FMT and weight loss. In one study involving 41 patients undergoing bariatric surgery in Finland, researchers investigated the effectiveness of FMT for weight loss. The findings from the clinical trial suggest that FMT did not demonstrate significant benefits for weight loss in patients undergoing bariatric surgery, although its known that bariatric surgery alone changes the microbiome. In this particular study, there were no substantial differences in weight loss outcomes between patients who received FMT from a lean donor and those who received an autologous placebo, meaning they had their own stool put back in. While this study did not find evidence supporting the efficacy of FMT in enhancing weight loss in the context of bariatric surgery, it’s important to note that research in this field is ongoing, and results may vary across studies.

Other studies have shown more promising results. For example, one such study investigated the impact of FMT on weight loss in patients with obesity, considering clinical and microbial factors. The researchers compared mixed-donor nonintensive FMT with single-donor intensive FMT. Results indicated that 13.2% of patients in the mixed-donor group achieved a weight loss of at least 10%, whereas no patients in the individual-donor group reached this threshold. Despite engraftment in all patients, there were no sustained differences between the two groups, suggesting that intensive individual-donor FMT did not induce lasting weight loss or microbiome changes compared to non intensive multi-donor FMT. Notably, mixed-donor FMT led to a durable increase in the abundance and diversity of butyrate-producing bacteria, once again pointing at butyrate as a key player in the question of obesity and the microbiome. The study also identified associations between weight loss and specific microbial changes. Higher initial amounts and reduction after FMT of Bacteroides dorei were linked to overall weight loss, while a weight loss of 10% or more correlated with increased amounts of butyrate-producing bacteria, including Anaerostipes hadrus, Collinsella tanakaei, and Roseburia hominis.

These findings, suggesting differential impacts of FMT regimens on microbial composition and weight loss, highlight the value of personalized microbial-based therapies for obesity based on donor and recipient selection. This personalization could include matching donors with specific microbial profiles to recipients to enhance the success of FMT interventions, although the evidence seems to point more and more to butyrate and butyrate-producing bacteria as a key mover in weight loss. Additionally, the frequency and duration of FMT sessions, as well as associations with specific bacterial species, could be factors influencing the weight loss response. While these findings provide valuable insights, further research is needed to establish broader guidelines for the application of FMT in weight loss interventions.

Another area in which the gut may be affecting weight loss is around gluten sensitivity. One randomized clinical trial aimed to investigate the effects of a gluten-free diet on components of metabolic syndrome. The results indicated that the gluten-free diet led to a significant reduction in waist circumference and improved glycemic control and triglyceride levels compared to the control diet. The findings suggest that a short-term gluten free diet can positively impact some key features of metabolic syndrome, specifically reducing abdominal fat, improving blood glucose levels, and lowering serum triglycerides.

Many individuals without metabolic syndrome may have slight gluten sensitivity, not to be confused with Celiac disease, and this gluten sensitivity could lead to weight gain or hinder weight loss. Leptin, a crucial hormone in signaling feelings of fullness to the brain, plays a key role in regulating hunger and satiety to maintain a healthy body weight. However, individuals classified as overweight or obese often experience leptin resistance. This condition, characterized by high leptin levels without a corresponding cellular response to satiety signals, hinders the body’s ability to manage hunger effectively. A study conducted by Swedish and Danish researchers and published in the December 2005 issue of “BMC Endocrine Disorders” suggests that grains, particularly those containing gluten, may contribute to the development of leptin resistance, potentially leading to weight gain and obesity.

Whatever the mechanism is, I can tell you one thing from my own personal experience. I eliminated gluten because it’s known to be a risk factor for autoimmune disease, and I was trying to reverse my Hashimoto’s thyroiditis. Anyone with an autoimmune disease is recommended to stop eating gluten, because of its role in creating a leaky gut (which also predisposes you to LPS leaking out). As a result of being strictly gluten-free, I avoided so many breads, cookies, cakes, pies, etc. that I would have otherwise eaten, thereby making it much easier to avoid sugar, which of course is related to weight gain. And when I knew I’d be going somewhere with desserts and would feel deprived, I’d make my own almond flour muffins with xylitol as a sugar substitute and eat that instead. And I did, by the way, successfully reverse my Hashimoto’s. I have had normal antibodies for like 3 years now and still have optimal TSH levels and have never had to take thyroid hormones, since my diagnosis in like 2013 or 2014.

So if you’re looking to lose weight, I’d recommend going off gluten, whether or not you have evidence of a sensitivity, because it’s just present in so many processed foods that are so addictive. Or if you want to check whether gluten sensitivity is actually a factor in your weight loss resistance, you can try a short-term elimination for 4 weeks. Without changing anything else, track on a weekly basis your weight, waist measurement at the belly button and any other symptoms from gastrointestinal to skin to headaches, brain fog, etc. and check if you feel better off gluten. If you want to make it super objective, try to replace gluten-based foods with equivalent gluten-free foods, although I wouldn’t recommend breads and desserts and regular pastas for someone trying to lose weight. Be sure to closely check your food, medication, and supplement labels for hidden gluten. Then you can try reintroducing gluten by eating a couple normal sized servings in a day and evaluate your response over the next 3 days.

Finally, I’ll finish up with the more obvious interventions for weight loss but with an eye toward developing and maintaining healthy gut microbiota. You’ll want to incorporate plenty of polyphenols into your diet, which are micronutrients recognized for their antioxidant properties, disease prevention and positive effects on the balance of beneficial gut bacteria. They are found in colorful fruits and vegetables, or products like Poly-Prebiotic powder by Pure Encapsulations*. Great food sources of polyphenols include cocoa powder, berries, dried herbs and spices, hazelnuts, chestnuts, pecans, and red, purple, orange, yellow and dark-green  vegetables, as well as beverages like green and black tea. Embracing these polyphenol-rich foods can contribute to a healthier gut microbiome and support weight loss.

Fiber, along with polyphenols, is also recognized as a functional food that provides food for the fermentation of beneficial bacteria in the gut, leading to increased short chain fatty acids like butyrate. Found in undigestible carbohydrates from fruits, vegetables, beans, legumes and nuts, fiber serves as an excellent nourishment source for beneficial bacteria. Gut health is extremely influenced by fiber, evident in the distinctive gut microbiota of individuals consuming animal-based diets versus those favoring plant-based diets. High intake of meat, eggs, and cheeses with low fiber content results in an abnormal gut microbiome characterized by reduced fermentation. Additionally, individuals consuming substantial amounts of animal fat face an elevated risk of pathogenic bacteria, potentially linked to increased iron consumption. In contrast, those with higher intake of plant-based prebiotic fiber from fruits and vegetables exhibit an abundance of healthy bacteria in their guts. Note, however, that this does not apply to ketogenic diets, which bypass the traditional production of butyrate through fiber fermentation  and instead produce ketone bodies like acetoacetate and beta-hydroxybutyrate and isobutyrate, a metabolite of protein fermentation, which also help with keeping the lining of the colon hypoxic.

That being said, I am generally a supporter of an unprocessed, omnivorous diet with adequate protein, which is basically one gram per pound of ideal body weight a day, including mostly lean animal proteins, at least 2 servings of fatty fish a week, limited saturated fats but from high quality pastured-raised sources like meat, butter or ghee from organic, pasture-raised animals. Dairy is okay if you have no sensitivity, again from pasture-raised animals, with priority going to fermented dairy like yogurt and kefir and hard cheeses in limited quantities. Then healthy fats from nuts, seeds, avocados and healthy oils like extra virgin olive, avocado, Zero Acre Oil*, which is a fermented oil high in Omega 3’s that tolerates high heat cooking, or flaxseeds or flaxseed oil or walnuts in particular for Omega 3’s if you’re not otherwise supplementing with Omega 3’s or getting them from fish. And then getting a rainbow of fruits and veggies with a minimum of 5 servings a day and preferably as many as 9 servings a day. And then for starches, the best choices are starchy vegetables other than white potatoes, so root veggies, winter squash, sweet potatoes, yams and legumes, quinoa and other whole grains, brown rice, black rice, wild rice or cooked, cooled and either eaten cold or only slightly reheated white potatoes and white rice, which are good sources of resistant starch, which functions like fiber in the body and in particular feeds those butyrate producers.

Generally, to lose weight, most women need to stick to no more than 2, ½ cup servings of these types of starchy foods a day and men may be able to get away with a little more. And if your diet is very far from this, I’d suggest picking one area to tackle each week to move more towards a diet like this so that the changes won’t be overwhelming and will be sustainable.

If you’re looking for help with weight loss, I still work with clients in this area both from the food, mental and lifestyle perspectives through a weekly program that runs for 12 weeks, as well as incorporating testing and interpretation to see what’s going on metabolically that might be impeding weight loss. Or if you are struggling with bloating, gas, burping, nausea, constipation, diarrhea, soft stool, acid reflux, IBS, IBD, SIBO, candida overgrowth, fatigue or migraines and want to get to the bottom of it, that’s what I help my clients with. You’re welcome to set up a free, 30-minute breakthrough session with me. We’ll talk about what you’ve been going through and I’ll tell you about my 3- and 5- appointment health coaching programs in which I recommend lab tests, educate you on what the results mean and the protocols used by doctors to fix the problems revealed. Or if you’re ready to jump in right away or can just afford one appointment at a time, you can set up an 1-hour consultation with me. 

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Personalized Health: Your DNA’s Role in Gut Health, Detoxification and Methylation with Bryce Wylde, DHMHS

Personalized Health: Your DNA’s Role in Gut Health, Detoxification and Methylation with Bryce Wylde, DHMHS

Adapted from episode 110 of The Perfect Stool podcast and edited for readability, with Lindsey Parsons, EdD, Gut Health Coach and Bryce Wylde, DHMHS, of VennMed in Toronto and co-founder of The DNA Company, who did a DNA sequencing report for Lindsey. To best follow along, download the PDF report.

Lindsey:

Before we launch into my DNA results and what they say about my gut health, can you first tell me about how you arrived at the conclusions that you make in the DNA reports from The DNA Company?

Bryce Wylde:

Well, I had the privilege of under studying with Dr. Mansoor Mohammed, who’s revered probably by most genetic experts, and genomists around the world as within the top 10. So I’ve been in clinical practice over 20 years, and we shared a significant degree of patients between us in this very eclectic multicenter practice called P3 at the time. We no longer practice under the same brick and mortar, but with his IP, and his insights was born a lot of what he would see in this particular DNA report.

Lindsey:

Okay. And this was based on patients that he saw and in their DNA reports?

Bryce Wylde:

Yeah, so Dr. Mohammed had a long standing company and had seen at the time, I believe it was about 2000 individuals, patients of his that he’d done genetic reports on. He has a double PhD from UC Baylor, and was a UC Davis graduate focused in genomic pathways. At that time, along with a team at the DNA company, we amassed another 6000 or so patient samples. Of course, some of this was from his actual clinical experiences, and his former education. From thousands of individuals, we were able to extrapolate a lot of what you now see within the DNA report.

Lindsey:

I think I heard you on another podcast, and you were talking about the fact that there were interviews with patients that was then cross referenced with their genetics.

Bryce Wylde:

You’d have to remind me of exactly what that podcast was, but we certainly would have had a lot of endpoints within any given patient that we consulted with as it pertains to them having gone through genomics. This wouldn’t be exclusively genetics, it would be on all types of functional genomic endpoints and laboratory studies and their full clinical medical histories that would have been taken in combination. Absolutely.

Lindsey:

Okay. I think maybe it was Chris Kresser. Have you been on his podcast? No, I haven’t yet.  Okay. It wasn’t Chris Kresser. I can’t remember whose it was then. I’ll have to look it up. So can you explain for people who may order their own reports what the letters mean for each gene. So for example, I show a list of relevant genes under the hormone section. Here’s an example: CYP17A1 and then after that, there’s an AA, and then there’s another one, SRD5A2, and after that, there’s a CG. And then after another one, there’s a CC, and after another one, a CT, and another one, there’s a 2.

Bryce Wylde:

It’s an alphabetical soup. So that’s going back to biology 101, grade 11. Most people that are concerned and are interested in this world of genomics, they’ll often come across the term SNP first or single nucleotide polymorphism. We all have them, they’re not the more revered mutations, but we’ve all started to come to learn to understand and appreciate them. They’re a natural occurrence, a variation of a particular gene, or your SNPs, Single Nucleotide Polymorphism variation. So how your particular gene expresses itself, given some genes are nonsense, or non code, and then others are actually making proteins and hormones and doing other things for us. So out of these important genes that we care to learn about, you have different variations. Some are more common to the population, some are considered to be the preferred variant, while others are considered the poor, or not-so-preferred variant, depending on the context. So when you’re thinking or seeing an A variant, given a particular gene, or an AG, or a GG variant, these variations may be, given that particular gene and whether what it does is optimal, sub-optimal, average, or poor. So it’s kind of like getting a report card, but I should say that there is no perfect combination. No one has the best genes. There’s simply variants that you have and knowing what those variants are can help you get through this game of life. I mean, genes are the cards that mom and dad have dealt you. I like to say that how you play them in this game of life is really what matters. So understanding what those cards are, is akin to understanding what variations or the numbers or letters that add up and how they pertain to your SNPs. So at the DNA company we go further than just looking at SNPs and the conglomerate of variations of those SNPs, we look at pathways. Inclusive within those pathways, often we’re looking at copy number variation. So to your question around numbers, these are like instruction manuals. We’ll talk about this a little bit later on as it pertains to detoxification, for example, the glutathionization pathway. So how our bodies manufacture glutathione and its detox process, you’re getting a whole manual of instruction on how to do that from mom, and from dad. Unfortunately, in some cases, we end up with only one or in many instances, zero copy number variations, or no variant. And then there’s the case of inserts and deletions, whole lines of code. So maybe not the entire instruction manual is missing, but sentences are missing within paragraphs. They’re just not there. Or in some cases, double sentences, so that’s two sentences being redundant. These are known as indels, or inserts and deletions. So we’re looking at SNPs with the AA, AG, GG variation, which one do you have. We’re looking at inserts and deletions, and we’re looking at copy number variations, and putting them all together. You can never take one gene out of context, I like to always add that. You have to consider numerous genes, in many cases, dozens of genes together before drawing even remotest of conclusions.

Lindsey:

Interesting. So when I look at this gene and the letters after it, I don’t know what the default preferred variant is for CYP17A1. I have AA, but I don’t really know if AA is good or bad.

Bryce Wylde:

Well, it’s good, let me tell you, but again that’s taking one gene out of context and looking at it on its own, because it depends on what we’re trying to accomplish in that instance. When we get to hormones, and we certainly will, we’ll cover that that. When we’re talking about the hormone pathway, most folks don’t understand that whether you’re male or female, which is decided by the XX or XY chromosomes, we all produce hormones with the exact same cascade. So look forward to talking about that. With the gene you described, it’s really more specific to how fast you might actually produce estrogen from progesterone. I mean, we’ll get into it. And it’s a really interesting pathway.

Lindsey:

I didn’t want to get to the details of that yet. My comment was more about understanding that as I look at the report, and I see those letters, there’s nothing to tell me right off the bat whether what I have is the preferred or not preferred variant, correct?

Bryce Wylde:

That’s because you’ve got to take them all together. You really look at this as a big book on you. This is your instruction manual. And there’s no such thing as good or bad, really. In instances where we reflect back to or refer back to the literature, and we look at these individual genes as optimal variants, or sub optimal variants, based on population dynamics, it’s very interesting. In some instances where someone has what might be considered the perfect gene, two of them might actually not only cancel each other out, but maybe create a suboptimal combination. So you have to take them all in context, considering where you live, your ethnicity, and your environment, all these things.

Lindsey:

One other question related to that. So if I see two, that means I have two copies of that gene, correct?

Bryce Wylde:

That would be correct. In this instance, we’re looking at copy number variations, or CNV, specific to glutathione, and glucuronidation. The specific ones we’ll be focusing on today are the pathways that are responsible for both detoxification and hormones.

Lindsey:

Let’s start with the detox pathways. How do they relate to gut health? And what does my DNA report say about mine?

Bryce Wylde:

Well, let’s just look. When we put all of these together, and we look at one full and complete list, it’s many pages long, so we’re going to take a minute just to get down to the very bottom of this. Just to summarize, one of our primary focuses being how do you intracellularly produce glutathione. Glutathionization is one of the most important antioxidants, if not the most important. Remember, I was telling you at the top, off-camera, that we don’t actually list a specific detoxification sub report. Detoxification is on page 10 of your hormonal report (p. 144 of PDF), since we’re going to come back to this momentarily. And so what we’re looking at in this instance is, as I mentioned, glutathionisation, GSTT1, or glutathionized theta. Before I get into the depth of your particular findings, you would probably agree with me that elimination of toxins, the liver-gut axis, the microbiome interaction, and the barrier function all play a role, and of course the gut plays a vital role in eliminating toxins and waste products. And efficient detoxification ensures that harmful substances are promptly removed from the system, safeguarding gut lining integrity. GST plays a huge role when it comes to the liver-gut axis. That’s the primary detoxification organ, and its function is very closely linked to gut health. Bile, produced by the liver, aids in digestion and carries waste products and toxins for elimination through the gut. This is also very much involved in microbiome interactions, so it can influence detoxification. Conversely, if you’re not able to rid yourself of toxins and metabolites, this influences the composition and function of the gut microbiome. This is good news for you: we see the number two here next to yours, GSTT1. I shouldn’t forget to mention barrier, so efficient detoxification eliminates the interaction or inflammation between the barrier and maintaining that gut barrier essentially prevents leaky gut, and even leakage of toxins into the system and substrates into the bloodstream. So GSTT1 is supposed to have a copy from mom, and a copy from dad, you got two, so you’re lucky, this is excellent. This is associated, as our report says here, with an increased enzyme function clearance of substrates. So that’s good. We’re also looking at how many GSTM1 or mu 1 copies you have now. This is the master gene that GSTT1, let’s call the GSTM1 a very close, but important, second. You’re supposed to also have a copy from mom and dad, which you also have, which is amazing. Therefore, relating to clearance and processing of xenobiotics and pharmaceuticals and reactive oxygen species, you’re doing very well. So in fact, you are gene blessed, as it relates to glutathionization. GSTP1 is a good example of some variation in a SNP or the Single Nucleotide Polymorphism that sits on this gene RS1695. This is where things may get backed up slightly with you. G variations in individuals we know relate to the ultimate clearance of some things like Tylenol. So that might get a little bit held up. Certain aspects of environmental xenobiotics, those that impact us as it pertains to hormone mimickers, and so forth. This gene, it’s a member, obviously, of the glutathione S-transferase gene family. But looking at this as a single phase two detoxification SNP you are a little more susceptible to certain things, certain health concerns that are associated with toxins, chemicals and certain heavy metal exposure and gut permeability. While there’s no direct evidence linking GSTP1 to gut hyperpermeability, we know that oxidative stress is known to influence the integrity of the gut barrier, obviously. And so it’s very likely that GSTP1 through that role in mitigating oxidative stress might very much influence gut permeability. Superoxide dismutase is very important, as we know, a manganese-driven enzyme and gene. Again, here we’re looking at a SNP, and yours being a CT variation. There’s this association of a 30 to 40% reduction of superoxide dismutase. When we’re seeing the essentially reduced clearance through the GSTP1 and superoxide dismutase, there’s that increased risk of reactive oxygen species accumulating. So you’re going to be interested in managing antioxidants. One of my favorites is the tocotrienols. I’ve done a lot of deep dive into this. Forgive me Lindsey, I’ve seen your whole report, so it’s hard for me to hold back. There’s some instances where we’re talking about gut health, we just mentioned the linkage to liver and that interconnectivity, but because I know about an aspect of your cardiovascular health related to the 9P21 gene. We look at three different SNP variants of that gene and anywhere there’s a G, it’s considered an elevated risk. What we’re talking about with this gene is the potential of inflammation to the endothelial lining. As we’ve known for a long time, the recommendation in this case is to suggest even something like tocotrienols is manyfold. This endothelial lining inflammation predisposition that you have signals to me appropriate consideration for tocotrienols, so not just because of SOD, you’ve got the CT, and GSTT1, you’ve got also the hybrid AG variant, which tocotrienols do a great job of eliminating or sweeping up the mess. This was the work by the way, Dr. Chandan K. Sen of Ohio State University who’s projects get funded $25 million year over year by the NIH, so we know there’s something to them. There’s really great work done there. They looked at post-MI, post-stroke, revascularization and recovery, and white matter lesion reversal. So it’s really amazing stuff. I’ve been to Malaysia, by the way, and I’m not speaking on behalf of the tocotrienols that might come out of Africa or Indonesia, because I’ve never been there. But I hear very terrible things about deforestation. Anyways, tocotrienols from Malaysian Sustainable Palm Oil might be the indication here for you, because of the 9P21 variation and the predisposition to your endothelial lining, and also how it might actually do a great job managing the very slight Achilles heel within your own detox pathways. By the way, the research shows tocotrienols have an amazing capability to reverse NAFLD or non alcoholic fatty liver disease. So there are a lot of little nuggets there to take away.

Lindsey:

Yeah, let me interrupt you for a second because I actually had Dr. Barrie Tan on the podcast, who discovered a source of annatto-tocotrienols. And we talked all about that, and I have subsequently suggested that for a lot of my clients, and I think I have my parents on them and my fiancé on them.

Bryce Wylde:

Well, we’re on the same page then. He has an incredible product that he talks about. The annatto derivative is perfectly good. It doesn’t have to be the Malaysian Sustainable Palm Oil. But the tocotrienols themselves are an incredible antioxidant. So it sounds like we both agree.

Lindsey:

Just so people understand what we’re talking about, we should clarify this is a form of vitamin E.

Bryce Wylde:

Correct. Thank you. And then GPX, glutathione peroxidase. . . . . . of that report. You’re going to scroll down until you hit the hormone report, and then it’s page 12 of the hormone report. We see GPX, and your variation here is a CC. First of all, this gene provides instructions for making the glutathione peroxidase enzyme, so that plays a very crucial role in protecting the body as well from oxidative stress. You’re doing well here. It basically takes hydrogen peroxide and other harmful peroxides in the body, turns them into a very benign and neutral water molecule. Here’s where I just took a quick peek as I scroll down to the end of page 12 and reminded myself of this 9P21 and the fact that you’ve got this between 4 and 6G association. Again, this is the endothelial lining, so this is all relevant within the context of hormones. We stop the detox conglomerate when we go through the GSTT1, GSTM1. You’re doing amazing there with both copies from both parents. On the other hand, GSTP1 and SOD2 are where we want to tweak things a little bit for you, and manage your clearance from phase 2 and just get this sweated out, pee it out, poop it out, get it out. If I’m talking to a client that has this variation combination, if they can afford it, obviously, I often recommend infrared saunas. It’s amazing. Your gut is like inverted skin, and so getting that skin active and sweating out certain things is really good for it. Especially studies show with heavy metals we might do a better job getting rid of them through our sweat pores than we do through our kidney clearance. So that would be the detoxification report in a nutshell.

Lindsey:

We’re on page 12 now (p. 148 of the PDF) Well, let’s move on to methylation. So I’m sure many people have heard about MTHFR. I know there’s a lot of confusion about what that means and how important it is, and maybe some exaggeration of its importance, as well as ignorance about other genes that play into methylation. Let’s dig into that.

Bryce Wylde:

I’m going to go back up a bit here to immunity. And I apologize for flipping all over the place here, but soon I’ll give you the page number within the immunity report.

Lindsey:

All right, and just note that the page numbers restart with each report. So the first one was within the hormones section, pages 10 through 12. And now we’re going to be inside the immunity section.

Bryce Wylde:

Going back to our earlier conversation, a lot of these genes and genetic genomic pathways, you will see some repetition. It won’t be exclusively in the hormone report that you’ll see detoxification, rather it’ll be scattered throughout all the reports. It’s also very relevant to cardiovascular health and disease. It’s very relevant to the hormone clearance that we just looked at. Let’s focus for now on the cardiovascular support. So rather than scrolling all the way up to immunity, because both immunity and cardiovascular involve methylation. Methylation is almost sort of synonymous with inflammation, but not quite. Without oversimplifying, because it is quite a delicate biochemical dance, I look at it like it’s a relay race, where in this race, you’ve got five racers and the baton stands for the methyl group, and the methyl group is CH3. If any of your racers obviously dropped the baton, that’s a problem. It’s not a problem that’s very easily solved by throwing more batons at the race. You’re disqualified if you drop the baton, but it’s of no use to just lay three or four batons on somebody, because more is not always better. So it’s a careful dance, these methylation, biochemical pathway circles. The endgame here for us is to understand what type of support you might need. Through the use of very specific types isomers of B12 and folic acid, we may support and fuel this particular pathway, given the various SNP associations that you might have. As they pertain to gut health, particularly, cellular health is huge, and our guts turn over at a very rapid pace. The immune function plays a role here. As does the microbiome that we already alluded to, in respect to detoxification. As it relates to cellular health, just for example, the methylation pathway and optimal methylation needs an availability of B12 and folic acid. They are imperative for maintaining the health and for repairing the gut lining with that speed of turnover. Obviously, for nutrient absorption, macro and micronutrient, and barrier function are important. When it comes to immune function, methylation plays a very important role in regulating the immune system at large, but it’s also crucial for managing gut health and preventing conditions like IBD, inflammatory bowel disease and leaky gut. The microbiome is a two-way street, but B12 status influences the composition of the microbiome and it plays a role in producing some of it. It also significantly impacts overall gut health in this dance with B12.

Lindsey:

We’re on page nine of cardiovascular report.

Bryce Wylde:

So MTHFR, or methyl tetrahydrofolate reductase. We’re looking at the SNP variant you have here being a CT. I don’t want to get overly complicated here, but this is the one people focus on most often. Sometime the single gene is presented to them, and they think this is the end all and be all even though it absolutely isn’t. I want to remind folks of that analogy I said before. It’s a race. It’s a circular race around the track. They’re really racers. MTHFR is just one of the racers, and it’s a really important racer. It’s part of the pathway catalyzing specifically the conversion of the 5,10-Methylenetetrahydrofolate to the active folates. This 5MTHF is then utilized as a methyl donor to B12 for the conversion of homocysteine to methionine. Homocysteine to methionine, this is the job that this is doing. In you, it’s associated with CT variant to a 30 to 35% reduction of enzyme activity with the intermediate 5MTHF production. We’re not just reporting on this saying that there might be a little bit of an issue here. I’m going to tell you at the end of this, what kinds of B12 and folate are the right ones for you. Because as I was alluding to, just throwing more batons at your racers is not the solution here. That’s called hypermethylating, that can be a problem as well. A lot of folks when they came to learn that they might have a CT or a TT as you do, just throwing extra folic acid at it may not be not only the right solution, you can also throw the wrong kind of folic acid at some some folks, depending on genes within the methylation pathway that are nonspecific to the variations of the MTHFR gene. You wouldn’t know what kind of folic acid to consume unless you went on in this report. Low blood folate is associated with elevated homocysteine levels and increased risk of cardiovascular disease. It’s relevant to you because of the 9P21 gene, and some others. We’ll talk about the maybe the APOE factor. We know all about early pregnancy and normal fetal development. The speed and turnover of the endothelial lining is important to manage. Folate serves as an ingredient to manage DNA turnover. You have this association of 30 to 35% of this enzyme activity and as folate’s crucial for synthesis and repair. And you know it’s vital in maintaining the health of these rapidly dividing cells in the gut lining. It doesn’t stop there. SHMT1 is a co-conversion of the L-serine and tetrahydrofolate, to glycine and the 5MTHF actual end results. So this is an intermediate, kind of little clinical pearl. The GG genotype that you’ve got here, when considered with the context of the MTHFR, is associated with optimal folate metabolism. This is looking at concomitant disease risks reduction associated with dysfunctional folate metabolism. Many who have a poor variant also have issues with the cellular processes, including this gut cell turnover and repair. But in your case, it’s associated with optimal bioavailability and efficient homocysteine to methionine conversion. So here’s the bottom line for you. It’s not the case with everybody, but you’re fine with methylfolate. If somebody didn’t have this genetic sequence, then they may want to be taking folinic acid where you’re getting down to the end of the conversion. In your case you’re fine with folate, methylfolate, more 5MTHF or quadrafolate. Really you’re fine with any of those types that are out there with the MTHF assignment. And then we’ve got MTR: you’re an AA. MTR catalyzes homocysteine to methionine and uses B12 to do it, as the methyl donor in this particular reaction. So this is associated with optimal enzyme activity and conversion of homocysteine to methionine. That’s the AA assignment. It turns out because of this, and I’ll explain some other variants in a second, that you’re fine with methylcobalamin, or the methylated form of B12. If you had any of these other variants down here, we might be wanting to give you a adenosylcobalamin so we’re not hyper methylating you. In studies done on autistic children who found that they had the 5MTHFR. They call it the SNP. Everyone’s got that SNP. It matters what variation of that SNP you have. Right when they found out they had this poor variation of this particular SNP, which is the TT variation, they were giving them in many cases methyltetrahydrofolate, in the methylated form. And in about 15 to 20% of them they were doing worse. And the question was why? And this was one of the answers that Dr. Mohammed was able to answer because they weren’t assigned these other variants that actually helped them to pass that baton in this race and effectively do so in a way that they were able to methylate properly. And then lastly, your MTRR, this reactivates methionine. You have the version AG associated with a slightly reduced enzyme activity, which won’t affect its precursor here, the MTR. So by the way, MTR and MTRR together influence B12 availability, which of course is crucial for DNA synthesis and maintaining the health of the gut lining. But just having this AG here does not all of a sudden screw you up and cause you to require the adenosylcobalamin. So again, we’re still giving you that form of methyl B12. It’s important because this can contribute to things like B12 anemia.

Lindsey:

Which I had following SIBO and and what turned out to be post infectious IBS and for a time positive for pernicious anemia. My hematologist recommended that I get on methylcobalamin. And I’ve essentially been on it continuously for the last 10 years.

Bryce Wylde:

And it would have worked, but guess what in some other combinations and in other folks with the same looking red blood cell count and differentiation, given that, they may not do as well. They may need adenosylcobalamin.

Lindsey:

Lucky guess for him!

Bryce Wylde:

Right. Then lastly, fucosyltransferase, FUT2 the AG is associated with slightly suboptimal enzyme function and plasma levels. This encodes for an enzyme basically, and this is releveant to you, by the way, found in epithelial tissues in the gastrointestinal mucosa and salivary glands. So this SNP shows a significant association with plasma B12 concentrations. And in your case, as you mentioned, this would be the gene that I would associate with poor enzyme function, and poor plasma and B12 levels. All G-allele carriers, whether you’re AG or GG, are associated with significantly lower plasma B12 levels, so what you said doesn’t surprise me at all.

Lindsey:

We’re on page 11 (p. 56 of the PDF). So those two markers that are in the suboptimal variant of AG basically mean that it’s not unusual that I should have to continue to supplement with B12 and folate, methylfolate.

Bryce Wylde:

Yep. And also by the way, combined with a vegetarian diet, these variants are associated with extremely clinically low, and vegan obviously, B12 level. So really important to get on the . . .

Lindsey:

Yeah, I’m not a vegan . . .

Bryce Wylde:

intramuscular in some instances or sublingual various forms of supplementation. Perfect. Yeah, so by the way, most folks that run this test the DNA, we should remind anyone who doesn’t know this, and I’m sure most of your listeners would definitely know this, DNA is one and done. You run this test once your DNA is going to change. The most incredible thing is that where you can’t alter your DNA, you can manage genetic expression, that’s epigenetic. And that’s what we’re talking about, through in this case, a perfect example, methylation. Manage this, by quelling the fire, I don’t care what you call it, subduing and mitigating inflammation, but you’re managing it in a way, your variations of methylation and how you’re able to carry the baton in this relay race with the right types and formats of B12 and folic acid. It really boils down to that for me anyways. There’s other implications here. But that’s really what it boils down to for me, for gut health.

Lindsey:

Yeah, I have always taken it sublingually since that time, because of the pernicious anemia and the SIBO. Right? Okay, so the third area you suggested we focus on is hormone pathways as it relates to gut health. So how are they related? And what does my DNA say about that?

Bryce Wylde:

Let’s just scroll right back down to the hormonal report to keep it simple. Toward the end, we call it hormones fitness and body type (p. 143 of the PDF). We use the traffic lights just to give a visual description of speed. What I want to emphasize here is that again, I alluded to this earlier, but everyone, whether you’re an XX or an XY individual born into this world with those chromosomal differences, we all have the same pathway, hormonally. It’s the speed at which we produce certain hormones that’s going to make the difference here. Again, this is not going to define whether you’re male or female. Within each of those categories, male XY and female XX, you’re going to have this spectrum of androgenized females through to estrogenized females and those in between. Same with men. There’s androgenized guys and estrogenized guys. The team at the DNA company have gotten pretty close now to looking at somebody and phenotypically being able to give a rough estimate of what their hormones probably exude from a genomic perspective. For example, we’re all wearing our heart on our proverbial sleeve here, I’m an estrogenized guy. I’m probably going to have a full head of hair until my late 80s, as my father and both grandfathers did. So that’s just one phenotype. Obviously, the challenge, in my instance, is retaining muscle mass as one additional phenotype. It’s hard for me, so I have to work extra hard. Then you’ll have the guys in the gym and they take one or two days out of the week, and they do half an hour and they’re ripped, and they’re bald. And guess what, they might have that advantage, but then certain hormones an androgenized guy has might predispose them further to prostate cancer, or a BPH (benign prostatic hyperplasia) for that matter. This relates to the gut because it could affect the speed at which you produce progesterone into testosterone, testosterone into estrogen. We know too much excessive estrogen is very proinflammatory, particularly in the gut, and then how you take estrogen and the genes that help clear or metabolize estrogen into their end metabolites. So these are known well for their predisposition unto estrogen-related cancers, breast, ovarian, and colon. And then step three, how you detoxify those, and we’ve been through some of that, but we can reiterate them. So obviously, there’s the hormonal influence on gut permeability, we’re coming to know that. So variants, and we’ll come back to CYP19A1, which is how quickly you take androgens and make estrogen, which affects estrogen synthesis. And that might directly actually influence gut barrier function. There’s the stress response. That’s not just an executive function thing. That’s a hormone thing, and integral to the body’s stress response, causing us to, depending on our variations and genetics, be susceptible to irritable bowel syndrome. Genes like CYP17A1, that you mentioned at the top, that starts this whole cascade here, involved in synthesizing stress hormones. You know that plays probably plays a role. And there’s gut motility, like hormones and neurotransmitters of course influence the speed at which our guts move, right? And how transit time works. Inflammation, particularly sex hormones implicated with an inflammatory response in the gut. So variants here, the androgen receptors, the AR gene, and the variations there affects androgen receptor function, of course, but influences inflammation, inflammatory pathways in the gut. There’s the microbiome composition, there’s immune function, nutrient metabolism, of course, detoxification, all of these things are going to have a major influence on gut health. So your CYP17A1, how you take progesterone in the steroidal sex hormone pathway and produce testosterone, you see this red light, that’s you, you’re slow. That’s actually great. I mean, we call it great, because it depends on everything else I see here. But it’s great because it’s slower, or red light, by the way, does not mean somehow you’re stopped, whether you’re not making enough, it’s not a bad thing, it’s the speed at which you’re taking this. So given that you have a yellow or a green light on the CYP19A1 or in this case, taking testosterone making estrogen. This would be your saving grace if you were green, the speed at which estrogen over spills in the body. But if you were an amber light here, or even a green light here on the CYP17A1 is what I’m pointing at. But then you are an amber or red light on the CYP19A1. That’s a different picture. But I’m painting the scenario of one compensating for the other in terms of overspill, in particular as it relates to gut health of estrogen metabolism. So your variation, and we can flip down to those variations, but I know what they are. So I’ll just refer to them in context of this picture here for you, your CYP17A1, you’re an AA. So this is again, responsible for biotransformation of pregnenolone, progesterone to testosterone, and the Cytochrome P450 cascade. So first step in hormone production critical in determining degree with all your hormones, the rest of their influence on your overall health. So you are a slow converter of progesterone to testosterone, the SRD5A2 is your testosterone into the very virulent dihydrotestosterone or DHT. And the speed at which you do that is average, we’re in the middle in between. Now, one of the things, were talking phenotype, might as well bring it up, it’s not so relevant to gut health, but I can tell you, compared to your peers, your counter, your friends, whoever, that they’re complaining, I mentioned the gym that they’re complaining the degree of what it takes them to work out in the gym and have some level of definition or be lean, and somewhat muscular. And then other friends are always complaining about cellulite and fat retention, all these different things. Obviously, I know, you pay close attention to your diet, I don’t know, maybe there was a time that you didn’t. But even in those times, so long as you did exercise somewhat. And if we consider this, the androgen receptor gene here, and the speed at which you clear testosterone, you don’t have to work as hard as the average person to actually retain muscle mass, and you’re not going to be one of those that really notices cellulite. It’s just the phenotype that you have. I mean, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but at least your genes.

Lindsey:

No, not wrong.

Bryce Wylde:

Yeah. So SRD5A2, this is the 5-alpha reductase that converts testosterone into dihydrotestosterone. For you there’s moderate enzyme activity. And you know, we call this potential for elevated dihydrotestosterone. It’s worthy of mentioning at this point. These are genes and depending on your environment, your lifestyle, so many other factors. The only thing it’s going to tell you any conclusive evidence of what’s happening at this moment in time right now are laboratory biomarkers, right? So endpoints, you can test for DHT, right, you can test for these things. Depending on where you are in your life. These are just the signals or the genes that dictate the average amount over your life and where you sit there. But at any given time, you can test for all these different things to know where you are. By the way, in menopause, and I’m sorry to take another tangent, but it’s so relevant in so many things. How you come into menopause, is entirely predicted by where you started this cascade. If somebody is very quick to make an abundant amount of testosterone, and by the way, guess where all estrogen comes from? Testosterone. In guys and and females, it comes from testosterone. It’s the CPY19A1 gene that makes it, in what speed, but if you’re greenlit here from progesterone into testosterone, and you’re greenlit from testosterone into estrogen, what do we call that? We call that estrogen dominant, particularly if how you convert into DHT is relatively slow. It’s like a cascade or waterfall. Everything is going into estrogen. And then if you have over here your estrogen metabolites, I’m giving a hypothetical situation, this is not you. If you’re producing very little 2-hydroxy but a ton of 4-hydroxy and 16-hydroxy, well, then we know what the risks are from that in these estrogen scenarios. Now your estrogen dominant plus estrotoxic, right? So these are these sort of scenarios. That’s not you, thankfully, in again with with you the if there’s potential for producing high amounts of DHT. And I just described some of the various phenotypes. We’ve got to be concerned or thinking about things like PCOS when there’s an elevation or retention of DHT. But your CPY19A1 gene is not at all sluggish or too slow. It’s right right there in the middle, which is exactly what you want. So again, just to remind everyone listening, this catalyzes aromatase and this is the very rate limiting step in the conversion of androgens into estrogens both men and women. And of course, you’re this moderate expression with enzyme activity with modestly reduced estrogen and estrogen to androgen ratios. And again, in postmenopausal, here’s my prediction for you ready? I don’t have a crystal ball, but you’re going to have a quite an easy menopause. You know, I can tell you the reality is that the hot flashes are insufferable, and I’ve had to go on hormones.  Oh, you have? Okay, that’s interesting. So the hot flashes may be related to some of those other genes as they pertain to the 9P21 and detox, but, but I would have predicted a relatively easy menopause.

Lindsey:

No other symptoms besides the hot flashes.

Bryce Wylde:

Okay, good. Well, that’s another predictor. By the way, these are all symptoms that the body uses to prepare, inevitably, this shift. So the speed at which you actually go through menopause is another thing, and nothing I can predict through what I’m seeing here. But how quickly obviously, your estrogen supplies dwindle, controlled by other genes, would be would be related in this as well.

Lindsey:

So first question. Is there anything in here that predicts that I’m going to be low on progesterone?

Bryce Wylde:

So we don’t look at the genes that ultimately cascade down from cholesterol, because they’re not as important. Obviously, if you’re on a statin, and certain things suppress cholesterol, or some of the other precursory . . . pregnenolone, and so forth. But what this suggests is the amount of progesterone that is otherwise circulating at any given time, is otherwise average to higher than the average individual. So and that doesn’t mean menopause because those are all going to blink a little bit. But here’s really what I want to drive home depending on what kinds of hormones people are otherwise supplementing, bioidentical hormone replacement therapy, there are certain qualifications we like to look at. And this is relevant to gut health, very relevant to gut health. If you are estrogen dominant, and estrogen toxic by taking progesterone even on its own, what’s it going to do? It’s turning into testosterone into estrogen. It’s not exclusive, you are producing more of that stuff. So if I’m looking at you, and I’m looking to determine a candidacy, if you will, for BioIdentical Hormone Replacement Therapy, or even regular HRT, you’re a great candidate. Anyone looking at this would say, or any of our team anyways, would say yes, she’s actually qualified with the exception. And it’s a mild exception down here. This is what we’re going get into step two here is looking at the degree of metabolite production again, the speed at which you produce these metabolites. In an ideal world, you’d have a green light over here, in an ideal world, and what this is a 2-hydroxy estrogen I’m looking at controlled by the CYP1A1 variant. And the reason I say that in an ideal world is because being slow on the protective 2-hydroxy is to suggest you’re a little more at risk studies show. And then over here, the 4-hydroxy, in an ideal world, it’s fine that it’s this yellow variant that, you know, it would be red and 16 would also be red. So how we work this through though is, and you’re very familiar I’m sure with the research around indole-3-carbinol or diindolylmethane (DIM) and some of these cruciferous family of vegetable extracts, that this helps flip the switch on this helps to slow down the 4OHe and over to the 2-hydroxy estrogen so helps to increase or helps to speed up the metabolism of the estrogen and clear it.

Lindsey:

So eat my broccoli?

Bryce Wylde:

Eat your broccoli. Bowls and bowls of it. So in the gut health circles, depending on your FODMAP assignment or how well you do on some of the insoluble fiber levels and so forth. And obviously that’s a whole different story. But yes, at the very least take an extract and I tend to prefer a diindolylmethane over indole-3-carbinol. I think in these instances, anyways, I don’t think you can eat yourself to a therapeutic range of broccoli.

Lindsey:

I have at various points taken that for various and sundry reasons. So definitely something I can go back on.

Bryce Wylde:

Yeah, I think so. I think it’s indicated for you. So far, I think there’s two things that I would really consider in your daily regime. And that would be the tocotrienols and some indole-3-carbinol, or probably even better, some diindolylmethane (DIM). And then this step here that we’ve already somewhat discussed today at length, glutathionization. We haven’t talked about the detoxification ramifications of catechol-o-methyltransferase, which is also involved in executive function, very important in methylation and converting all the neurotransmitters into active metabolites, etc. But it’s very important here in excreting estrogens. Now, the reason, and I’m just going to highlight this real quick, you’re seeing a red light on GSTs, and our algorithm works in very mysterious ways. Sometimes this is one of them. If your GSTP1, which is true, you have the AG variant, it’s going to show up automatically, even though you have a great GSTT1, two copies and a great GSTM1, two copies, your SOD, you know, hybrid variant AG, and your GSTP1. So that’s why it says considered suboptimal. So the other thing is maybe, again, when we’re talking gut health, I still think one of the best things to consider for folks is upregulating glutathione. And I think, if you do a quick PubMed search, there’s like 32, or four, something like in the realm of low 30 studies have been done on supplemental glutathione. And 30 or more of them have basically resulted in either no effect or very little effect. And I think what the studies show in summary is that yes, the glutathione that you might consume in glutathione format, whether it’s liposomalized or otherwise, reduced, acetyl- or whatever, is probably entering to the system, but it’s not getting into the cell, intracellular, whether it’s the cells of your intestine or into your red blood cells beyond homeostasis. So it’s probably doing some antioxidant good outside of that, but it’s not getting beyond homeostasis into the cell. So we like to recommend precursors.

Lindsey:

Like NAC or glycine?

Bryce Wylde:

You got it. NAC, glycine, exactly. Alpha Lipoic Acid, selenium, a little bit of selenium, or three Brazil nuts a day, non irradiated, organic, if possible, Brazil nuts. But there’s also some interesting ingredients, I think out there worthy of further due diligence by anyone listening to this, and that’s gamma-glutamylcysteine. So some interesting studies out of Australia, taking this gamma-glutamylcysteine, seems to actually upregulate glutathione intracellularly. Beyond homeostasis. So it’s like the direct precursor. Anyways, all of that to say, we’re huge fans of precursors to glutathione. We don’t think glutathione itself is really going to work, it’s probably just going to dissolve in the stomach and in the gut, and not really do. . .

Lindsey:

What about S-acetyl-glutathione?

Bryce Wylde:

Any of those variants, you look at any of those things, and it just doesn’t survive, it just gets taken down.

Lindsey:

Well, it’s a lot more expensive, so certainly easier to get the precursors.

Bryce Wylde:

And there you go, exactly. So in a generalized summary of detoxification and gut health, and methylation and gut health, we’re talking about elimination of toxins, liver-gut axis, microbiome interaction, cellular repair, that’s so huge, immune regulation, all these things factor in neurotransmitter synthesis. We didn’t get into that. But obviously, we look at the whole brain-gut axis and executive function, energy metabolism and methylation. All that plays a role and the interaction between detoxification and methylation oxy toxin elimination, microbiome, I think I mentioned that, hormone balance, we just finished some of that. Both detoxification and methylation influence hormone metabolism and elimination, which can impact various aspects of gut health as well, including motility that we very briefly alluded to, and even immune function. So you’re getting to see how all of these things, you can’t look at any single gene on its own. All of them play a significant interaction, and they need to be looked at in context of pathways. And we’re very proud of that at the DNA company, not just what we look at and how we report on them. But the science that supports these various pathways and pathway interactions, I guess, would be the quick and dirty summary.

Lindsey:

Do you have time for one more question?

Bryce Wylde:

Love it.

Lindsey:

Okay, so this is a little off topic. But one of the reasons I was really excited to have this report done by the DNA company was because in my 23andme results, when I ran them through Genetic Genie, it indicated that I had APOE 4 and 4, which is the worst genotype for the risk of Alzheimer’s. And I recall reading that that meant I had something like an 85% risk of having Alzheimer’s by age 80, but correct me if I’m wrong. So I was waiting for independent confirmation of this. And so I was really relieved when you ran this report, and I saw that I only have APOE 4 and one APOE 3. So can you tell me a bit about this and the degree of difference in risk profiles for 3 versus 4 and what people can do who have the APOE 4 genes and other genes that are relevant to Alzheimer’s?

Bryce Wylde:

Absolutely, yeah. So starting at the top with when we’re thinking about where we’re getting our information from, or that is to say the results of a genetic report, we have to consider where it’s coming from. And ultimately, unfortunately, some of these genetic reporting companies that are involved in looking at a tremendous amount of genes all at once, this is really more of a cost savings iInitiative, or let’s call it a business model. They can’t run small runs of gene sequences. And this gets a little bit complicated, but just save it to say they’re running tens of thousands, so your entire genome essentially, at one time. That’s going to lead to a varying degree of inaccurate reporting. And it’s quite widely available, the literature boils this down, it’s basically 15 to 20% of false positive on the APOE4, so either receiving a 4 or a 3/4 or 4/4 a variation wrong 15-20% of the time. I probably shouldn’t say this, I’ll just use a very famous TV doctor had this done. And we did these genetic tests for that person, very unique, actually, presentation. But I’m saying this because he reported his variations on the air. So but I’m just holding back a little on the story. But at the end of the day, same kinds of situation went down as I’m assuming went down with you is he was falsely reported on. We correctly reported on, and here’s why we’re able to correctly report on these. It’s because we run very small runs, really small batches of genetics at a time, so the chances of making a mistake is very low. When you look at the literature, what you have to understand about these studies, by the way, see, I’m showing you this on p. 4 of the cardiovascular report (p. 45 of the PDF). That’s because we don’t report APOE in context of some kind of dementia report. So we’re not making anything that we can talk about it in context of cognitive decline. Dementia is very relevant to that. But we report first and foremost on this cholesterol carrying capable capability of the apolipoprotein. And that plays a role. But so you look at these populations, and you see, those that have essentially had diagnoses of Alzheimer’s, that were extrapolated, and then looked at, depending on literature, you read, 30 to 40% of those with Alzheimer’s had an assignment of genomic APOE 3/4 and upwards of 70% had 4/4 variants. But you can’t just jump the gun and so quickly reverse engineer that to mean, if I have an APOE 3/4, I have a 30 to 40% increased chance of getting Alzheimer’s. And really, there’s so many different factors involved, as we all know, right? Diet, lifestyle, sleep, can get into so much here. But so there’s a definite association. We don’t report on this as the Alzheimer’s gene. We could talk Alzheimer’s, because having your variation here of a 3/4, there’s implications of again, cardiovascular disease, coronary artery disease, ischemic stroke, and we haven’t talked about the combination. But putting this in combination with the 9P21. It’s definitely a highlight risk for me for you. And it’s something that you want to take away from this report outside of gut health and its implications, is cardiovascular disease. So this is very much an old story of cholesterol being part of it, obviously size, particle size, oxidative cholesterol, how angry it might be and how quickly it might want to deposit within the lumen of the artery lining. But when we combine APOE, as a 3/4 with a 9P21 multiple G, we’re much more concerned about the predisposition of inflammation that warrants the deposition of that cholesterol, right? Does that make sense? So yes, you know that the studies are there. By the way, third ingredient for you, for me, anyway, would be a very bioavailable form of curcumin. And there’s multiple ones out there. I like the liposomal curcumin in this case. It’s all about bioavailability because it doesn’t easily, speaking about the gut, doesn’t easily get through the gut, into the general circulation. So piperine or pepper can help that. But liposomal or micellized. Micellizing is getting it to even smaller, tiny little lipid particle size that can get absorbed easier. So yeah, I’d say with this gene, we like to make these recommendations in combination with other factors, consider that curcumin is advisable for you. But that’s a long way of saying there’s some inaccuracies in certain other companies reporting on this gene. We can’t take it out of context and say it’s a direct upregulation or assignment to getting Alzheimer’s. But at the same time, can you mitigate or do certain things given the rest of the genome pathways that you’re expressing risk. And I think yeah, you can, that’s our whole MO is what can we do through diet, lifestyle and supplementation to tweak or mitigate genetic pathway expression?

Lindsey:

Awesome. Well, this was all super interesting. And I love hearing this about my genes. I wish I could go through the entire report with you, but I will certainly read it more in detail myself. I really appreciate you giving your time to this. And we will include links on how to order your own DNA report from The DNA Company in the show notes.

Bryce Wylde:

I appreciate you having me on.

Lindsey:

Yeah, thank you so much for being here. Any final thoughts?

Bryce Wylde:

I just think understanding our genetics and our gene pathways is an incredibly useful starting point to knowing what more we need to focus on. A lot of people are confused about, if they’re biohacking, or what might be the underlying – we hear this term all the time underlying cause – so you know, obviously genes and environment play a role and how we grew up and all these different things. But I think it’s a great starting point for most people. And if you think about it, it’s a one and done test, which I also love, so you’re spending in, but you never have to do the test again. And it informs on so much more of what you want to put your efforts toward and I think that’s what people are so confused as to where do I start. Well you know, what’s a great place to start the journey, start the process of wellness biohacking. Understanding potentially what other physicians, clinicians, consultants, like yourself, you might want to consider talking to to help you navigate and wade through. There’s so much to know and learn, right, but it’s a great starting point. This is your instruction manual. And if you don’t know it, you’re at a disadvantage.

Lindsey:

Yeah. And I think for people in particular who have very complex health problems that are deep like chronic fatigue or fibromyalgia or some combo of gut issues and mental health issues and something else, that’s the kind of situation where I think that something like this would be useful.

Bryce Wylde:

Can we have time for just a quick anecdote?

Lindsey:

Sure,

Bryce Wylde:

Okay, thank you. So on that note, this is where we see incredible stuff come out of the weeds. So in our clinic and I mentioned this is going back top to the top talking with Dr. Mohammed, I give him such kudos for figuring this out. The light bulb that went off. We had all these young female patients at P3 Health coming in, and you know, what you call out for, what you see more of and do well for, you get more patients, right? So we had all these women come in with chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia and misdiagnosed Lyme and we did well at diagnosing Lyme, still do and couldn’t figure out. It was a huge pool. There was like dozens of these women and again, in their mid to late 20s. Otherwise should be healthy, eating healthy tried everything. Okay. What did they all have in common genomically? I’ll just cut to the chase. They were null variant detoxifiers; they did not have the instructions to properly detoxify. In combination. The two most striking things, there was a third, but it came third, distant third. The second thing, estrogen dominance with estrogen toxicity. So alluded to that a little bit. Third thing, distant third, methylation, poor methylators, but nonetheless poor like terrible detoxification, methyl estrogen dominant, estrogen toxic. This is a story more about what we got them off versus what we gave them. What did we take them off? Birth control pills. They were probably just adding fuel to the fire so they had these predispositions, but they were taking birth control pills, hyper dominant estrogen, not able to clear it. Because that COMT and GSTs are reliant on that information, they’re genetically there to get estrogen out of the body. So just dumping more estrogen, like fuel right onto the fire. So yeah, nine times out of 10, maybe more, taking them off their birth control pill, has solved their chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia.

Lindsey:

Wow. Very interesting. Well thank you so much for your time. This was awesome.

Bryce Wylde:

Thanks, Lindsey. I appreciate it. Thanks for all you do.

If you’re struggling with  bloating, constipation, diarrhea, soft stool, acid reflux, IBS, IBD or any type of chronic disease, etc. and want to get to the bottom of it, that’s what I help my clients with. You’re welcome to set up a free, 30-minute breakthrough session with me (Lindsey). We’ll talk about what you’ve been going through and I’ll tell you about my 3- and 5- appointment health coaching programs in which I recommend lab tests, educate you on what the results mean and the protocols used by doctors to fix the problems revealed. Or if you’re ready to jump in right away or can just afford one appointment at a time, you can set up an 1-hour consultation with me. 

Schedule a breakthrough session now

From Medication to Elimination: A Colitis Healing Story

From Medication to Elimination: A Colitis Healing Story

Adapted from episode 109 of The Perfect Stool podcast and edited for readability, with Lindsey Parsons, EdD, Gut Health Coach and Jordan Power, an ulcerative colitis sufferer who reversed his disease after doctors suggested he have a foot of his colon removed.

Lindsey:

Like many people who’ve turned to alternative medicine, you were able to reverse your ulcerative colitis. And you may have had an exceptionally bad case, because as I understand it, your doctors were recommending that you remove a foot of your colon. So why don’t you tell us the story, from the beginning, about how you ended up with ulcerative colitis, and then what you did to reverse it?

Jordan Powers: 

Sure. My background is that I come from a family of two doctors. My parents were doctors, and my sister’s actually an ER nurse. I come from the very common medical establishment pieties, let’s say. When I was about 18 years old, I went on multiple rounds of Accutane. It probably started when I was actually 17. When I had that third round of Accutane, in the middle of it, I got extremely sick to the point where I was admitted to hospital. I had dropped about 25 pounds in a period of about two and a half months, and I looked very sick. My bloodwork was terrible. No one really knew what was going on. My mom sent me for some testing, and eventually they diagnosed me with ulcerative colitis. The connection to Accutane hadn’t been made, and the people in the US hadn’t sued yet for multi seven figure judgments. They made that connection probably 10 years after I was diagnosed, and I signed up for the class action then. I don’t know for sure if that’s the connection, but I don’t have a history of any inflammatory bowel disease in my family. Colitis just came out of nowhere.

Lindsey: 

Let me pause you for a second. So Accutane, just to clarify, is a drug for acne, and I know it’s high in vitamin A. It’s not just vitamin A, though, is it?

Jordan Powers: 

Vitamin A acid, I believe. All I remember really is that it mentally drove me into a total depression. Then all your orifices and your mucous membranes dry up, because the idea is that the medicine dries up your sebaceous glands. It does work for acne. Don’t get me wrong, it absolutely works.

Lindsey: 

Yeah, with the small side effect of ulcerative colitis, right.

Jordan Powers: 

Then you have a disease for life.

Lindsey: 

I’ve heard of other people having vitamin A overdose from it.

Jordan Powers: 

They pulled it off the shelves for a period of time. I don’t know if it’s still off. In my book, I talk about a place called Kitava, in New Guinea. It’s a small island where they don’t have the chronic diseases we have in North America. Their teenagers don’t have acne. They don’t go through that requisite period where you have to get acne.

Lindsey: 

I think anyone who doesn’t eat a bunch of processed food and sugar also has the potential of not having acne.

Jordan Powers: 

Yes, it’s true. But you know, it’s just we think it’s just part of life. You’re a teenager with acne. That’s just what happens.

Lindsey: 

Yeah, not at all. I told my kid as soon as he got his first real zit, that if he goes off sugar, he wouldn’t have acne. The fact that his entire diet consisted of processed white carbs made it hard. Not that I was the person who purchased those foods, just a disclaimer, but even so, that was his diet. The sugar alone wasn’t enough, but he actually did it. I couldn’t believe a child had that level of willpower to go off sugar like that. He’s pretty much stayed off it other than brief pauses for holidays like Thanksgiving and Christmas.

Jordan Powers: 

Wow, did you get them off seed oils, too?

Lindsey: 

We didn’t really use them in our home. So other than in the processed foods that I wasn’t purchasing, yes, he was mostly off seed oils.

Jordan Powers: 

Right. Okay. It’s just that they’re in 99% of restaurants, if you eat out.

Lindsey: 

Right. So if he ate out, of course he couldn’t avoid them.

Jordan Powers: 

Going back to my initial diagnosis, it was the age old tale of the doctor sitting you down and saying these are the only options. These three drugs are the only options available, these three drugs and steroids. There’s no cure, and no discussion of holistic treatments. At the time, I was still in that complex, right? I’m not really blaming my parents here, but I grew up with a certain conditioning. And the people that question that conditioning are often cast from polite society and deemed the crazy ones. Then I grew up and realized it’s actually the inverse. And the reason that they were cast from polite society is that they’re a threat to some sort of neoliberal order.

That was a real period where I just went on tons of medication, around eight pills a day, steroids, and hospital admissions. I saw my health get progressively worse. Around the time of my mid twenties, it stabilized. I do want to note also that I was eating well, I wasn’t eating a lot of bad food, but when you have that delicate of a microbiome, anything can really set you off. Then there was a period about a year and a half ago, where I went to South America and the combination of seed oils and alcohol and processed food and all the other things I was having set off what I called the train. With Colitis and Crohn’s disease, or inflammatory bowel disease, once you start going, it’s really hard to stop the train. So I’ve had multiple vacations ruined, my trip to Israel, and my trip to Colombia were both just completely ruined. I came back home and I couldn’t get it under control with medication or with steroids. I just couldn’t stop it.

And so I sat down with my doctor after two colonoscopies, and he said to me, we can basically just cut out a foot of your colon, and then that’ll solve the problem. I’m not really a spiritual person, but there was really this moment where I was sitting in the room, and I said to myself, “Yeah, I don’t think this is in the cards for me. I don’t think this is part of my life.” I don’t know if that’s a level of denial. It could be. I just thought, I don’t need this. I came home and went on the internet and I started searching on YouTube. I stumbled across all kinds of people and started going on alternative paths. I call this experience opening boxes of horror. I was looking into what’s in our beauty products, what’s in our cleaning products, what’s allowed in North America that’s banned in Europe, all these different boxes that I kept opening.

I had a really protracted discussion with a man who worked in cosmetics consulting for some major companies. He would tell me these horror stories where he would tell them that this product is going to cause lung cancer, and they would just say, “Thank you for your service, goodbye.” I learned that there wasn’t a lot of money in integrity. I got so freaked out between my YouTube rabbit holes and discussions with him, that I just went on a binge, and I got rid of every chemical in my house, starting with cleaning products and beauty products. Then I found alternatives, and started really adapting an elimination diet through Paul Saladino, the carnivore MD, on YouTube. Within 30 days, it was gone. When I say gone, I mean really gone. It was the best health I’d had in my entire life after just 30 days.

Lindsey: 

Wow. Can you summarize the diet that you went on? And then I assume you reintroduced things after, so can you tell me about the progression? Did you go full carnivore?

Jordan Powers: 

No, so what I did was sort of carnivore: fruits, honey, raw dairy, and a bit of potatoes. Potatoes has just been something that always made me feel good. I don’t know if it’s the prebiotics. Before that I had never experimented with raw dairy. I heard the tales that it was going to kill me, but then I start doing research for my book. It said there’s only a one in 6 million chance of dying, and that there’s a much higher chance with cantaloupe and spinach and all these foods. So I got my hands on some raw dairy, because where I live, it’s illegal although there’s ways to get around it, which we don’t have to get into, but people can figure it out on their own. Raw dairy felt great. When I drank it, I felt like it was connecting with my body, whereas when I had pasteurized dairy, I would feel this inflammation in my body. So it was really just the meat, the raw honey, the raw dairy, fruit, and the potatoes and I stuck with that for about 30 days.

Obviously, it’s boring, but you know, when you’re that sick, you’ll do anything. Then the combination of swapping in different products in my house, starting with switching shampoo for a shampoo bar, skin products for beef tallow moisturizer, getting off the chemical sunscreens, and then really just cleaning my house with just rubbing alcohol and a little bit of soap and some essential oils, or some baking soda and vinegar.

The craziest part of this whole thing that also happened to me is that before I just assumed that I was depressed and anxious. I thought that was just my destiny. I’m 50% Irish, and it’s just how we are. The added bonus of this whole thing is that I would wake up after battling these illnesses off and on for most of my life, treating them with multiple SSRIs, and now I don’t think I have these mental issues either. I don’t think I actually am depressed or anxious. I don’t feel depressed, I can manage stress situations now in a different way and the modulation of my moods. That was the craziest part, more even than the colitis recovery, was to see the mental aspect. The way that you approach the world on a daily basis is affected by this. Even when my dog died during all this, I handled it in a way that I don’t think I would have if I didn’t have a stable mind. I was at peace with what was happening and I wasn’t trying to fight it. I wake up now and I say that I’m a different person. I don’t even recognize the body that I live in now.

Lindsey: 

That’s amazing. Getting back to sort of the diet changes, what were the most dramatic things that you removed from your diet for this 30 days that were really transformational?

Jordan Powers: 

This might be controversial, but spinach and kale were terrible, with the oxalates. Kale has great PR, so you read everywhere, you got to have kale. I would eat kale, and I would feel terrible. I would have the runs. Broccoli was terrible, any cruciferous vegetable was terrible. What I would do is I would make an anti-shopping list. I’d have my shopping list on the one side of things that I knew were fine. Then every time something would bother me, I would just write it down. I had to be hyper attuned to my body at that point. Most people are just like bots. We go through life, and we’re just eating things, and then 12 hours later, we don’t connect the dots with the food. So I created an anti shopping list, and I would just write down spinach, kale, broccoli, any white breads were a no. Obviously, any processed sugars were a no. Any meats where the animal was eating seed oils, hormones, or antibiotics I had to get rid of.

Lindsey: 

So you went to high quality pasture-raised meats, and that kind of thing?

Jordan Powers: 

Absolutely. That was another one. I realized that I can eat a steak and not feel bloated. Before I thought I hated steak, because I’d feel sick, and that was that. With the fruits, I would go organic as much as possible, and I would wash them in apple cider vinegar, or I would do different things to make them as clean as possible. I also started chewing my food slowly. That was an interesting thing. Before, I was always rushing, working, trying to get things in my body, but proper nutrient absorption happens through chewing the food. Even with my mineral water that I drink, I now swish it in my mouth and kind of let it absorb into the gums a little bit before I swallow. That’s a little trick that I do.

Lindsey: 

That also warms it up.

Jordan Powers: 

Yes, and then supplementation-wise, I went on to beef colostrum, because it’s really been shown to regenerate the intestinal lining. That was a big one for me. The biggest thing was also that I got rid of all the crap supplements I had been taking. Instead I just went down to beef heart and beef liver every day as a supplement, because I don’t love the taste. So that was the combination. And then I would try different supplements, zinc and stuff like that, but I really came down to the belief that high quality food cannot compare to the supplements that are shipped to your house with God knows whatever plastic and whatever fillers are in them. I just don’t think they’re comparable unless you find a really good supplier, so I really only take about four or five supplements now.

Lindsey: 

To clarify, it doesn’t sound like you cut out all of your fiber when you did this 30 day diet, which is a more traditional colitis flaring diet.

Jordan Powers: 

No, you know, the interesting thing about colitis is you oscillate between constipation and diarrhea sometimes, just because your body is off. So I did get the fiber from the fruit and select vegetables that I was eating, like carrots, that weren’t bothering me. But for the most part, the only vegetables I do eat now are carrots, some onions, some tomatoes. That’s all that I consume in the vegetable world because even when I used to have vegetable soup, I would feel disgusting afterwards, which seems like it runs contrary to so much of what we’re taught when we’re younger.

Lindsey: 

So you’ve sort of stuck with this more limited diet.

Jordan Powers: 

Yes, and I feel great. People tell me that my life is so boring, because my grocery list is about 15 items. But I don’t care because people don’t understand what it’s like to have your life consumed by a disease. There’s nothing that a variety of foods is going to make up for. I don’t want to go back to that horror and that darkness that I lived in, and of course, I do cheat. I’ll go on vacation and I’ll have dinner here and there. But I am fully functional now, it is unbelievable. I went for a scan with my doctor. Again, medical professionals can be pompous, and I say that as someone who’s parents are doctors. The doctor was looking at my colitis scan and he really just asked me what was going on because there was no evidence of disease. And I told him what I did, and he said that the good results were probably just a medication that I had switched to.

It’s so interesting to me, because I feel like they think that holistic medicine can’t work in marriage with modern medicine. It can’t augment it or kind of replace it. They feel like it’s a threat to their ego and who they are and what they’re taught. And I will say that I really give credit to my mom, who’s a GP, because she has really opened her mind up to the holistic world. She has told me that if she did her whole career again, she would really focus much more on the holistic route. Because, like I said, we call it the Pandora’s box of horrors. We open up something that we’ve been taught over and over, and it’s just horror after horror unveiling itself.

Lindsey: 

Yeah, I look at my doctor and sometimes I think she’s just leading a life of quiet desperation. As a doctor, you’ve got this brief amount of time to talk to somebody and you don’t really know or understand all the stuff they’re taking, because for example, I’ve got a pile of supplements that I’m on and, and she doesn’t necessarily know how to solve my problem. I’ll just ask her to run the tests I want, and I’ll take care of the rest. God bless her. She does that.

Jordan Powers: 

It’s also their time constraint, they have a period of 10 to 15 minutes to see you, and there’s no way they’re going to ask you about your diet and analyze your microbiome.

Lindsey: 

Right. No, of course, they’re going to look at your medical record, and they’re not going to remember you because they see 20-30 patients a day, and they’re going to look and only quickly take a summary. And then that’s it. They’re not going to remember all of your history and everything else unless you really stood out to them.

Jordan Powers: 

It’s funny, because now I’m in this holistic mindset. And I went to a doctor with these white spots on my skin called idiopathic guttate hypomelanosis, and it is just little white spots on your skin. The common belief when you google this is that it’s just sun damage. You get too much sun and you have these white spots. I’m sure that true for some people but mine kind of just showed up very quickly, within a three to four week period, I had them all over my legs and arms. And I went to this doctor who was like the biggest dermatologist in Toronto, double board certified, a hotshot, and he said it’s sun damage and to just put sunscreen on and stay out of the sun. I told him that I thought something else is going on here. It just appeared out of nowhere. And I had just been in Thailand, which was a hint.

So I then I went to a holistic doctor that I pay. It was the same diagnosis; it’s a fungus on your skin. This is how you treat it. He said do this and this, take these supplements, put this antifungal cream on and within three weeks, it’s gone. At the end of the day, they both diagnosed it correctly. But you had the first doctor saying there’s no options available for you. And then the second doctor is saying there’s something going on here at its core. That’s very much like the colitis thing. Why is my body attacking itself? What purpose would that serve? And why are these illnesses not in these places like New Guinea? And to start with those questions sets you off on a different kind of path.

Lindsey: 

Yeah. So you never went on a biologic, did you? Was that offered to you? Or did you not get to that point?

Jordan Powers: 

It was offered to me, it was around the same time at the surgery. And I didn’t do it because it was about $1,000.

Lindsey: 

Unfortunately, the side effect for people that go on them is suppressing your immune system. One of the biggest dangers, of course, is getting cancer. So of course, there’s a trade off, my ulcerative colitis might go away for a while, but I may get cancer in the meantime.

Jordan Powers: 

Yeah, I feel like you maybe have the same belief as me, that the body, if you just leave it alone, it’ll just fix itself. But once you start one thing, it’s a domino effect where you throw off the whole homeostasis of the system and then other things start popping up. You know, I’m on an SSRI for this and now my sex drive is down. So I need to take this other pill and then it’s causing this and suddenly you’ve got five side effects going on. Where you should instead just conquer the question of why are you depressed and what is the impetus for that depression? But they don’t have time.

Lindsey: 

Of course, right now it seems like with the mental health medications, especially if you get beyond just depression and anxiety and into like bipolar, that kind of thing, you can start piling one medication on to another and all of a sudden there’s teenagers who have five mental health medications and often the parents at some point go okay, something’s not right here. We need to make some lifestyle changes. Usually you have to go relatively far down that route before you start realizing that it is insanity. My child should not be on five medications.

Jordan Powers: 

It’s also the same thing with the skin. People tell me that my skin’s never looked better and ask me what do I put on it? And I’m like, beef tallow with raw honey mixed into it. I just bought it off the internet. That’s all I do. I don’t even wash my face. I just put that on now. I used to put on a cleanser with alcohol in it that would strip the oils and then I would put on a toner with 48 ingredients. Then I’d put on some other cream that was in plastic and a truck. I would do all this and my skin looked worse. I had more breakouts, I just put this $35 beef tallow with raw honey on every day. And that’s literally all I do, and my skin looks better than most people. It just goes back to the idea of just leave it alone. Leave your skin alone. Just leave it alone, because by complicating things you’re creating all these different problems for yourself.

Lindsey: 

Years ago when I was in college dated a guy who asked me why I washed my face with anything, because he just washed his face with water. I decided to try that. And ever since I’ve washed my face with nothing but water. I have never had skin issues of any sort.

Jordan Powers: 

I think you just mess up the system.

Lindsey: 

Yeah. It’s just a big industry trying to sell us more stuff. So it sounds like you really believe that removing toxins from your house, and your diet was a big part of the puzzle, what makes you so sure that that was a big reason for your healing?

Jordan Powers: 

Well, when I wrote my book, I linked to a bunch of studies, which all showed that when you mess with the microbiome, that’s when you start having problems. 50% of the diversity of our microbiomes has been destroyed over the past few decades. So I think when you mess with anything, that’s a problem. For example, if you’re eating a plate of something, and there’s still detergent on it, then you’re mixing that with your food. What is that doing to your gut? Even drinking tap water, the fluorides and everything that’s in that is terrible. It really was these conversations I had with this guy.

And then when I wrote in my book, don’t use this product, don’t use this product, it’s been linked with lead or heavy metals. I link in my book the various studies out there for these different things. So I’m not this guy saying I’m just anecdotally making this up, right. I can tell you, not just from the conversations with this consultant, who’s 30 years in the cosmetics business, and the stuff I’ve watched, but also the studies I put in my book. Just anecdotally, from myself, when I introduced those things into my life, because I am hyperattuned to my moods, I can tell you that they messed me up. I noticed that when I go on vacation, because then I can’t filter my tap or my shower water. When I’m on vacation the combination of having to eat seed oils and having to have certain chemicals and stuff like that in my body, I start to notice that I snap more at people. I realized that eliminating certain foods and chemicals meant that I wasn’t triggered by things. And I wasn’t snapping at people. There’s moments on vacation where I’m just a little more snappy than usual.

Lindsey: 

Yeah, and you should, in theory be more relaxed on vacation.

Jordan Powers: 

Absolutely. I think I snap because on vacation I’m just introducing bad things to my body. I really do believe that it’s been almost a year now where I’ve been off medication, I am in the best health I’ve ever been in my life, mentally and physically. But I don’t get too confident, because I do believe I’m still teetering, and I will be teetering for another year or so.  I’ve talked to, there’s a guy named The Holistic Nick or Kenny Honnas, also guys who have cured their colitis. They say it takes a couple of years to really get yourself back to a point. So I try not to risk it, and stay as diligent with things because I don’t want to backslide. There are moments where I feel a backslide, when I’ll go for dinner with some friends or have a little booze or not get great sleep. I can see myself going there.

But it is very, very scary what is in a lot of those products. Even stem cell creams are barely tested, and they put those on the market and people were just slathering them all over their face, and they mess with cell replication. No one knows the long term effects of those. A lot of these clinical trials when you look into these beauty trials for different creams, it really comes down to we gave the cream to 60 women for 90 days and none of them got a rash. Go buy it at the CVS. People think there are a lot more guardrails in place to protect them. There’s also things in your food and beauty products that are banned in Europe but allowed in North America.

Lindsey: 

Yeah, like food dyes, for example. I spent many years fighting to get the food dyes out of the food in the Montgomery County Public Schools outside of DC in Maryland. We got rid of almost everything. I would say the only thing that remains are natural caramel colors that they put in meats, because it’s almost impossible to get those removed, given the quality of meat that they get in the school system. We got them out, we did a lot of good things.

Jordan Powers: 

Wow, good for you. It’s the little battles that leave a mark on the world. You made a change for people. Some of those changes might not even be so tangible for people, but they might even go, “Well, I feel better this week.”

Lindsey: 

With food dyes, it’s not that everybody’s affected by them. But there’s a certain subset of kids that have ADHD kind of symptoms because of food dyes. My partner who started the nonprofit with me, called at the time, Real Food for Kids – Montgomery, she had a daughter who was one of those kids that reacted to food dyes, and she did crazy stuff when she was on the food dyes.

Jordan Powers: 

I’m newer, and I’m not trying to be a health expert. I just really wrote this book because of my experience. A lot of people asked me about my healing process, so I just wanted to get this out there. You seem like you’ve been immersed in this for a longer period of time. Do you feel like you’re used to the way that people will dismiss you, or sort of pretend that you’re the crazy one because you don’t want toxins in your life?

Lindsey: 

If it’s a doctor, I don’t open the door to even let them say anything about what I’m doing. I mean, I know my GP is good. But I’ve definitely had one bad experience with a gastroenterologist completely dismissing and belittling me. After that, I decided I’m not even going to share anything. I’m just going to come here, tell them what I want or need, take whatever piece of advice that’s within their conventional medical paradigm, and then just do the rest on my own.

When it comes to other people outside that, I do find that there are certain people who don’t understand my work. This maybe comes up the most when you know someone who has cancer, because that’s when you’re feeling this desperation. There’s so much I could tell you about what you should and shouldn’t be doing, and about ideas and people to look at. But you can only reach out so much, because everybody in their life is doing the same thing, right? You’re not the only person giving them advice. Especially if you’re not that close to that person. Usually things get crazy when you get cancer, right? Like all of a sudden everything drops out, but you have to focus on the most important things. So I don’t think they can even receive all that input, because they aren’t even checking email anymore, or because they’re more worried about just living and dying and things like that.

So it’s happened a number of times that you’ve seen somebody get cancer that you know, and love, and you just can’t do anything if that’s not their paradigm. Two of the people I knew who died of cancer at age 50, their parents were doctors. And, of course, they were not as open to alternative things. I mean, somewhat one of them, but the other one was completely closed off to it. And there was nothing I could do. I couldn’t come to their homes and force food down their throat. You know what I mean? I couldn’t change their diets. I couldn’t even get them to consider supplements. I certainly couldn’t get them to consider alternative practitioners. There just was nothing I could do. I mean, I did my best, but it was it was frustrating.

Jordan Powers: 

Yeah, it’s a very isolating existence to be heterodox on any subject. Now I’m heterodox on health. I was already heterodox on the media, because I’d worked in IT for 12 years. So I think I needed that conditioning to question the establishment in order to then also be able to take in alternative health information. But a lot of people, I don’t know what the wiring is in their head, but they need experts, and they need to just go with the flow, and they need to follow.

Lindsey: 

Right. I mean, you have to feel like you’re doing the right thing for yourself. And I guess you have to decide what that is, and then close your mind to everything else. Because if you keep it open, then there’s all sorts of quack jobs who are trying to push all sorts of things that have no peer-reviewed evidence behind them. There’s a difference because there are actual studies on this, even if this may be a newer idea, there’s still initial studies. By the time it gets into the conventional medical paradigm, it’s 20 years behind. When it becomes part of the standard of care, at that point, you could have been using it for 20 years because it takes that long to get into the standard of care.

Jordan Powers: 

One of the things I was talking about with someone who was going to get an MRI my life is that it’s coming out now the dye they use in MRIs is heavily linked to cancer now. People are getting MRIs every day with this stuff. And now they’re trying to ban it in certain places. So there’s the irony of going for cancer screening and to then take a cancer-causing agent at the same time. I find myself trying to not get too paranoid because it’s just not feasible. I’ve kind of stopped opening boxes because every time I open a box, I find more horror. It’s the same with wars and anything else, so I’ve pulled back on that.

I think there’s maturity when you tell people your experience and you’re standing in front of them, and you’ve cured your disease and your depression, anxiety. In that case, they can’t really deny you, they can’t deny looking at you and seeing that you’re functional and you lead by example. And so that’s also why I wanted to write this book for people. I say to people, “Hey, I’m not a mirage. I was the person that you saw in the hospital multiple times who was very sick. And I’m standing right here, and I’m traveling the world and feeling great. That should be enough for you to at least question the medical paradigm a bit.” I will say that probably 20% of people react well to that.

Lindsey: 

Yeah, well, in my health coaching training, they had an expression, which is that you can’t save the people who are swimming away from you. So if you have a drowning person, they have to be working in your direction. You can’t chase them down. If you want to get help, you can you can take the first steps yourself. I know one of the other things you mentioned when we had talked before the show was about your hair. Can you tell me a little bit about what changed there?

Jordan Powers: 

Yeah, so I actually just finished another ebook, I’ll give you the link for that one as well. It’s going to come out this week. When I was doing all this, I was also putting my stepdad on the same diet. He’s not sick with anything, but he did get off statins for a lot of reasons. He questioned everything in his life after that point, and we were doing the same stuff, with the bone broth, and I’m getting better, and he’s feeling better. He wasn’t battling a chronic illness, but just feeling better in general. And I went to his house one day, and I looked at him and I said, “Oh, my God, your hair looks amazing.” He was putting his hand through it. And it was probably 20% less gray at that point, too. At the same time, I was experiencing the same thing. I’m not talking about dramatic difference, but I’m talking about even my nails growing faster. I would just have filled in my hairline. It was easier also toc lean it, wash it, style it. And so I started looking into that aspect of healing. And it’s like your skin and your hair are the barometer, right? You look at yourself, and you can look at a person and see that they look healthy, even if you don’t know why. Whether it’s the whites of their eyes, or whatever it is.

I put together this book, and I looked into history and you look at photos from the 1900s. It kind of similar to when you look at photos of the 60s and 70s, people on the beach, you see that like 5% of the people are fat. In these photos from the 1920s you see the difference then and I was looking at these guys, they were in their 30s and 40s. Most of them didn’t have receding hairlines. And so I started looking into whether it was getting worse. If we know chronic diseases are getting worse, is balding getting worse too? It was really bad in Asia, people were balding at 18. So I put together this book looking into the chemicals you put in your hair, the sulfates, there’s multiple class action lawsuits now against shampoo makers, some of them probably have merit, and some of them are a cash grab. But I’m of the belief that when you mess with the microbiome of the scalp, you’re going to run into problems. I went into what I do for my hair, basically an organic shampoo bar and some coconut oil. That’s basically it. And then really breaking down more the hormones, raising prolactin, estrogen, seed oils, and the different things that can mess up your hair and linking that information to different studies about filtering your shower water, because I noticed my stepdad and I were going through that. There are also a couple helpful Chinese herbs that people are using and rosemary oil is shown to be as good as Rogaine now.

Some of the more heterodox beliefs, including that a lot of what’s going on is not related to DHT. It’s related to inflammation in the scalp. Why do you never lose hair here, but you lose it here? That’s why they do hair transplants from the back, investigating what’s going on there. I include little bit about blood flow and facial development. And so I put that together and I called it “How not to go bald: 30 all-natural solutions for hair retention.” It’s not a cure all, but it’s all interrelated. Looking at your hair, and why you’re losing your hair at 18 years old, maybe it’s because you’re consuming high amounts of PUFAs. It also looks at parts of the world like the Blue Zones. When I went to Costa Rica, that was another thing I noticed. I couldn’t believe how healthy the people looked because I was near one of the Blue Zones. You’re talking about people in their 70s and 80s and they’re  moving boulders and logs. And they’re not doing NAD drips, they’re just living their life. The community is socially cohesive, and they’re living in tune with the earth and staying active. These guys, they’re 70. They’ve got muscles and a full head of hair. I do think it’s all interrelated. I think some people are more susceptible to hair loss genetically, but I put that together and tied it in with what I learned in the book as well.

Lindsey: 

One of the things that I thought you’d mentioned initially was about a copper deficiency and the gray hair.

Jordan Powers: 

Yeah, that was one of my holistic friends, who recommended taking copper with zinc on a daily basis and see if you can reverse some of the grays. And I would say I probably reversed them like 20 to 30%. So far, it’s been mostly the greys on the sides of my head. I don’t think I’m going to win that battle entirely, but it helps. There’s some interesting stuff now about hydrogen peroxide and how if you lower those levels, you can stave off the gray hair, which I didn’t dive into too much in the book. It’s just so crazy to see my step-dad looking like he has the same the hair he did when he was 35. And he’s 68. It’s strange to see all these things happen, and his skin looks great. I just wonder how much of the stuff we consume normally is being poisoned to a degree.

Lindsey: 

I think some people also have poor detoxification, just genetically. I’m going to have somebody on my podcast from a DNA company soon, and I’ve got my reports, and I found out that I don’t naturally detoxify well, so I’ll probably do well to supplement with glutathione or NAC or some precursors to glutathione. That’s something that just genetically I’m burdened with. So that may be you, maybe you are not going to methylate well, you’re not going to detoxify well. There may be things that you will always need to supplement. A lot of people need B vitamins who come into my practice. I think there’s just different ways that our bodies relate to the world.

Jordan Powers: 

Well, I’ve always loved niacin flushes. And I’ve done them for a really long time. I’m talking years before, I would do them because some holistic podcast had said they were good for mental health purposes, and this is when I was really struggling mentally. It’s because it opens up the blood flow to your brain, and so you get like a fresh flush like you would when you’re exercising. And so when I was doing those, my mood would do a 180 on a really bad day. I’ve continued doing those for my skin and hair. I hope you’re not going to tell me that they’re bad for you. Because I do them at least once a week.

Lindsey: 

No, no. There’s forms of niacin that cause flushing when you take them and there’s forms that do not. You’ll see it advertised as no-flush niacin. I have heard about using niacin for depression. So what kind of doses would you would you take?

Jordan Powers: 

I did about 1000 milligrams. So two of the tablets. I get the flushing kind.

Lindsey: 

Some people don’t like the flushing feeling. But I think the one that works for depression is the flushing kind.

Jordan Powers: 

I believe it increases your NAD levels. I think that’s also one of the other things.

Lindsey: 

It’s certainly a precursor.

Jordan Powers: 

So I do that because I don’t mind the flushing, I combine it with some sauna, which I find is nice. But little things like that. I’m half Italian, but I’m also half Irish, and the chemical sunscreens really scare me after my discussions with certain people. What I do now is that I don’t go out during peak hours, but I take astaxanthin*, which is that really powerful antioxidant, which is also great for my colitis. When I went to the Caribbean, I was in Anguilla for about six days. And I didn’t go out during the peak hours. So I’d go out from 2-5 pm, no sunscreen, just zinc oxide on my face, but no sunscreen on my body. I would take the astaxanthin. I loaded it about two weeks before, and I didn’t burn once, which is very strange for me. It’s also the seed oil consumption, people believe it’s oxidizing. When I would go to places as a kid, I burned if I went in the sun without sunscreen. In the Caribbean, I didn’t because they say astaxanthin acts as an internal sunscreen. That tip really has changed things for me, because for people that are fair and don’t want to slather on a bunch of chemicals on their skin, it’s a nice option, and you also get the antioxidant benefit of it as well.

Lindsey: 

Awesome. Any additional thoughts on things that you’re doing to protect your health right now or things that you’re doing other than the eliminating toxins and an elimination diet that you might recommend for someone with colitis?

Jordan Powers: 

I think largely we’ve covered most of them. I will say also the other aspect we haven’t touched on which is a big part of me getting healthier is the mental aspect. It’s one thing to feel better and be able to tackle these things because you’re in a better state of mind. But I’ve started following people like Teal Swan, who’s quite controversial, but she really helped me. I read one of her books. I’ve just been practicing a level of radical responsibility. The idea that I don’t whine about how other people treat me because I can’t control that. Instead I deal with why I stayed. And why I tolerated that behavior and my self esteem levels and what I will tolerate moving forward. That radical honesty and responsibility has really changed my life, and filled it with purpose. Now I don’t get sucked into people’s problems and their gaslighting.

That was a real problem for me that I think was also really throwing off my microbiome. The way I approach the world is I don’t get triggered by people. People can say things about me, and if I don’t believe those things to be true about myself, because I know myself and I have a strong self concept, I no longer react in the crazy way I used to do. Because I can go no, that’s not who I am, and that’s not what I believe in, you’re mischaracterizing me. A lot of this is just a level of maturity, and investing hours into understanding yourself and who you are, and your background. I think that was the final piece of this puzzle to get me to a place where I could look at myself in the mirror and feel good about who I’d become. One of the guys on YouTube, The Heal Your Gut Guy is his name, he spends a lot of time connecting people’s stress and their mental problems with their gut and making connections between the two.

Lindsey: 

Usually one of three things I’ve identified that throws people’s guts off is either an episode of food poisoning, a lot of antibiotics, or other medications like steroids, or an extreme period of stress. Inevitably, that starts the whole process of a downhill slide for everybody. So of course, getting the stress piece under wraps is important.

Jordan Powers: 

Yes, talking about stress, I do a million things. I have three businesses, I do a podcast, and now I’m deciding to do music. I’m just trying to fill my life with different things and give myself direction. I’m writing a song right now called Cleaning House. The idea behind it is why do I feel like life makes more sense when I get rid of certain people. What comes with that is a level of loneliness; it’s sort of like a tax you have to pay. The idea is that once I once I get rid of 90% of people, I will be happier and have a level of peace. I also will trade that with a bit of loneliness at times, and it’s hard to navigate that sometimes. That’s been a big thing for me is getting rid of people that didn’t serve me and didn’t serve my purpose. I think so many people hold on to people as they get older, because that’s just what you do. But often, it’s not that you’ve evolved past them in a better way, but you’re just on a different journey. You just feel that divergence. I’ve let some people go out of my life that I really needed to let go of for a really long time. I do it in a different way than I used to do it when I was all messed up in my gut. I just have an honest conversation. It’s not about me saying to people, you need to change and you need to do this. It’s about me saying that this is what I need out of our relationship, and if you can’t provide that to me, then I need to do what’s in my control and leave.

Lindsey: 

That’s a very courageous thing to do. So congratulations on making that big step.

Jordan Powers: 

I think it’s needed for so many people.

Lindsey: 

Well, thank you so much for sharing about your journey and the stuff that you’ve been going through. Tell me the name of your two books.

Jordan Powers: 

Sure. So “The Freedom Blueprint: 35 Remarkable Strategies to Conquer Chronic Illness” is the first one. And then I’ve got “How Not to Go Bald: 30 All-Natural Solutions for Hair Retention.” I’m selling them both on Gumroad right now. I also run a marketing agency, but it’s pretty esoteric. It’s mostly lawyers.

Lindsey: 

I don’t think most of the people listening are interested in marketing help, but you never know.

Jordan Powers: 

Yes, but that’s this is the main thing. Those are the only health books that I’m going to do. This is just something that I’ve gotten into.

Lindsey: 

It’s a side passion, right?

Jordan Powers: 

I ran into so many people asking me over and over how I cured my colitis. And so I decided, let me just sit down and put it into an ebook and then for the rest of my life, I can just send people the link, and they can look into it themselves. Because people come to me for help a lot, and it’s a lot of time and I also don’t have the training to unravel all their issues.

Lindsey: 

Yes of course. People’s health situations are very complex and require a lot of background information and study.

Jordan Powers: 

I’m sure you get people that say this to you all the time. They’ll say their health problem is they feel tired, and that could be 500 things. I don’t know how to attack that.

Lindsey: 

Absolutely. Okay, well, thanks so much, Jordan. It’s been a pleasure.

Jordan Powers: 

I appreciate you having me on. This has been really great. Thank you.

If you’re struggling with  bloating, constipation, diarrhea, soft stool, acid reflux, IBS, IBD or any type of chronic disease, etc. and want to get to the bottom of it, that’s what I help my clients with. You’re welcome to set up a free, 30-minute breakthrough session with me (Lindsey). We’ll talk about what you’ve been going through and I’ll tell you about my 3- and 5- appointment health coaching programs in which I recommend lab tests, educate you on what the results mean and the protocols used by doctors to fix the problems revealed. Or if you’re ready to jump in right away or can just afford one appointment at a time, you can set up an 1-hour consultation with me. 

Schedule a breakthrough session now

6 Gut Health Myths: Separating Fact from Fiction

6 Gut Health Myths: Separating Fact from Fiction

Adapted from episode 108 of The Perfect Stool podcast with Lindsey Parsons, EdD, Gut Health Coach and edited for readability.

1. Detoxes and cleanses are the ultimate gut health solution or weight loss solution

I’m sure you’ve seen advertised gut detox kits or cleanse plans on the internet that claim they can remove toxins in your gut, or billed as the ultimate solution to a gut health problem, or the best way to lose weight quickly. The gut detox kits might have herbs, fiber, probiotics, something laxative perhaps. Cleanses may be restrictive diets with particular foods emphasized each day or come in kit form as well.

If you were considering a detox kit or cleanse for weight loss, the benefits will likely be short-lived as most of these cleanses are not sustainable in the long-term. While some studies report short-term benefits like weight loss and improved insulin sensitivity, there is insufficient compelling evidence to support the use of “detox” diets for long-term weight management or toxin removal. Even worse, these cleansing diets may lead to temporary weight loss due to reduced calorie intake but often result in weight gain when normal eating habits are resumed.  The main consideration for me when it comes to weight loss is that whatever method you’d like to use to lose weight and maintain weight loss needs to be sustainable. That’s why, for example, I rarely recommend a ketogenic diet, because I’ve never met anyone who could sustain that in the long term, not to mention I’ve met several people, including myself, who have had bad reactions and gallbladder issues from such a high fat diet. In one case, I had a friend end up with a gallbladder removal after trying keto, but more commonly, as was the case for me, shooting pains likely indicative of gallbladder issues after following a keto diet for a short time. Of course there are people who can and do sustain keto long-term, but most people crave carbs too badly and eventually come off of it onto a plan that’s much less healthy. So I’m an advocate of starting with something sustainable and losing weight gradually in a way you’re willing to live with for the rest of your life.

Another consideration with a sudden detox or cleanse is a die-off or Herxiemer reaction, especially if you have a very poor diet to begin with full of sugar and processed foods. It’s actually better to gradually go off these types of foods so that as your body starts to detoxify from them naturally, you don’t have headaches, a flu-like feeling or other die-off reactions. A gradual elimination diet with a scheduled reintroduction, like the autoimmune paleo diet, is a better choice if you’re trying to determine whether you have food sensitivities, or trying to stop what seem like autoimmune symptoms or general ill health. 

As for gut detox kits or supplements, there was a double-blind, placebo controlled study on one detox supplement containing a 1350 mg blend of papaya leaf, cascara sagrada bark, slippery elm bark, peppermint leaf, red raspberry leaf, fenugreek seed, ginger root, and senna leaf. Participants took it for 4 weeks. The study concluded that “No beneficial or harmful effects of supplementation were found for body composition, waist circumference, gastrointestinal symptoms, or blood markers.” If I had to dig in on why there were no changes, just looking at the ingredients and the dosage, I’d say this. Some of those ingredients individually I know are successful in helping with gut issues. For example, senna leaf teas are well known for helping with large intestine motility for constipation, ginger root is helpful with small intestine motility, and is often included in prokinetic agents for SIBO, and peppermint leaf is known to be helpful with bloating and IBS/SIBO symptoms and slippery elm is good in the case of gastritis and healing the lining of the stomach and small intestine. But each ingredient has a particular best dosage, use and function and just throwing everything into one detox kit no matter what your issue is will not likely produce the desired results. In this study, also, participants were healthy, so it wasn’t looking at the product’s results on people with a particular condition.

But in most cases, gut detox kits or programs will have a limited duration like a week to ten days, and the needed duration for, for example herbal supplements to kill off gut pathogens, may be 4-6 weeks. Or if you’re dealing with well-entrenched systemic candida, you may be looking at 8 months’ worth of treatments, switching active agents every couple months to prevent resistance.

Now there are some higher quality kits, say for example, Microbiome Labs Total Gut Restoration – Kit 2*, but again, they’re for particular situations. I would recommend a kit and plan like that for dysbiosis, but not for SIBO, because at week 5 you’re already introducing prebiotics including FOS that would feed the bacteria that cause SIBO. But most people choosing these kits haven’t done a stool test or SIBO breath test and aren’t quite sure what they’re using the kit to deal with. You could have bloating, for example, from SIBO, from candida overgrowth, or from low stomach acid, among other things. So there’s not really a one-size fits all solution you can just grab in a kit.

Also, when it comes to detoxification, the body does a pretty good job expelling toxins on its own with natural mechanisms, through the lymph system, the liver and kidneys, skin, lungs and digestive system. Of course some people do have markers on an Organic Acids Test* or NutrEval Test* that indicate that they aren’t detoxing well, such has high pyroglutamic or low glutathione, or elevated markers for some environmental pollutants. In that case, I’d likely recommend N-acetyl-cysteine or NAC* or glycine, if certain gut health markers are out of whack, as they are precursors to glutathione, but that’s with specific evidence of liver overload or dysfunction.

The average person doesn’t need a detox kit, they just need to gradually move towards a healthy lifestyle and maintain it through regular exercise, a well-balanced Mediterranean style diet, physical activity, stress management, good sleep, stopping smoking and reducing alcohol consumption. In place of detoxes, short-term fasting or elimination diets can be considered for resetting the gut and promoting healing, particularly when dealing with food sensitivities, autoimmunity, chronic gut issues, or symptom flare-ups.

2. Drinking at all with meals will dilute your stomach acid too much

So I’ve had a lot of guests on my show talking about not drinking with meals, and if you’re anything like me, you would choke if you didn’t have liquids for washing down your food. So I wanted to check the veracity of this claim.

What I found was a study in which participants drank a full glass of water, then they tested stomach pH. Now optimal stomach pH is quite acidic at 1.5-3.5 and but to digest protein properly, you’ll want a pH in the 1.5-2.2 range.  Just a reminder from high school chemistry, a low pH is more acidic, a high pH is more alkaline.

So in the study, a glass of water, and water is around 7 in pH, did in fact increase stomach to a pH of 4 for 3 minutes. So if you extrapolate that a bit, it’s hard to image that small sips of water in between bites of food are going to significantly increase pH for any reasonable amount of time. However, I could see some value in pausing between sips of water and more food to allow the stomach to reacidify. But this idea of going completely without liquid seems a bit over the top to me.

3. Popping a probiotic will fix your gut health issues

Probiotics are live beneficial bacteria that people can take as supplements or naturally digest by eating certain foods such as kimchi, yogurt, kefir, kombucha, sauerkraut and other fermented foods. The idea is that by taking probiotics you can rebalance your gut by increasing the levels of beneficial bacteria and limiting the amount of harmful bacteria. They have grown extremely popular recently, and many supplements, drinks and foods include the tiny organisms. Most of these forms of probiotic supplements include the Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium genera. Despite the craze surrounding probiotics, it’s been difficult for consumers to understand the inconsistencies in claims between scientific studies and supplement companies’ advertisements. It is hard to take in all of this marketing information and reasonably determine the effectiveness of various probiotics and what specific benefits they provide and in what situations. 

This confusion happens because there is actually an incredible diversity in types of probiotics, and each of these types of probiotics works differently and on different health conditions. There is no standard probiotic, a fact that the natural health industry often overlooks when marketing and selling probiotic products. This presentation implies that all the microorganisms are homogeneously beneficial, and perpetuates the myth that simply popping any probiotic will automatically help with any health and in particular gut health condition. As convenient as this would be, it’s unfortunately not the case. Probiotics require a precision approach that pays attention to scientific and medical studies in order to figure out what the right choice of probiotic is to address specific issues. 

When I suggest probiotics to clients, it’s always specific to their condition, and I often recommend either a probiotic yeast, Saccromyces Boulardii*, that has been well studied with specific conditions like H pylori, for instance, or a spore-based probiotic* that has been studied for reshaping the gut microbiome in a beneficial manner and in particular with SIBO, or a very specific strain of a lactobacillus probiotic for their particular condition. The means not just Lactobacillus reteuri, for example, but Lactobacillus reteuri DSM 19738, which is the name including the genus, species and strain name. Or more recently, now that we have some anaerobic strains available, I might recommend a probiotic like Akkermansia Muciniphila*, for people whose Akkermansia is showing up as below detectable levels on a stool test. But I almost never randomly grab a multi-strain lacto/bifido probiotic as a cure-all for all clients.

And a 2018 study in Cell using multiple stool samples using the best technology available for categorizing the bacteria in stool, called metagenomic sequencing, plus analysis of two samples taken via endoscopy, found that probiotics taken with antibiotics deeply delayed and perturbed the reconstitution of a normal gut microbiome in healthy individuals. But again, keep in mind that the starting point was a healthy gut microbiome, so this doesn’t necessarily apply to dysbiotic microbiota. Lucy Mailing does an in-depth analysis of this study and the pushback from some people in the gut health community if you want to dig further in, but her recommendation is protecting gut hypoxia, meaning an oxygen-free colon, by using butyrate supplements while taking antibiotics if you have a healthy microbiome to start.

And if you’re looking for specific probiotic recommendations, I have a blog I update periodically called “Choosing the Right Probiotic to Heal What Ails You” that you can consult for more specific condition-related recommendations.

4. A gluten-free diet is necessary for optimal gut health

So this is a topic that I’ve done podcasts about, and I have recommended that if you’re struggling with gut health issues, you should try going off gluten. But it’s certainly not a magical ticket to perfect gut health and often, once gut healing is finished, going back on gluten is totally possible and not harmful. Now of course if you’re diagnosed with Celiac disease or non-celiac gluten sensitivity, you should legitimately plan to avoid gluten for life, and that fact will be reinforced every time you eat gluten and feel miserable, if you first eliminate it strictly. Celiac disease is an autoimmune disorder that results in intestinal damage from eating gluten and is effectively managed by strictly avoiding gluten. I should add that I know there are lots of people out there and who I’ve seen as clients who have celiac that’s undiagnosed because they went off gluten, felt better, and never took the test while on gluten. So if you suspect celiac, it’s best to take the test while you’re still eating gluten. While you can test for the genetic pre-disposition for celiac at any time, testing for antibodies (Tissue Transglutaminase IgA antibody being the typical first line test) is best done while eating gluten. Gluten sensitivity, while associated with some gastrointestinal symptoms, lacks specific evidence of intestinal damage. However, for sensitive individuals, there is an extended opening of the tight junctions between cells in the intestines, meaning a leaky gut, which is a precondition for autoimmune disease. So if you’re experiencing any active autoimmune disease, you should avoid gluten. But for the remainder of people, any improvement experienced when avoiding gluten may be related to the fact that wheat is a FODMAP food, which is a type of fiber that is fermented by gut bacteria and produces bloating, or simply because gluten is a large, hard to digest protein and if your digestion is impaired, any more complex proteins may cause you issues.

All this to say that if you do go off gluten while dealing with gut health issues, unless you got a stool or other test indicating sensitivity. And I do see a good number of people, even people who are supposedly gluten-free, who have elevated anti-gliadin IgA antibodies on the GI Map Test*. But if you have no solid evidence of a sensitivity, then you can safely try gluten again once your gut health issues are resolved. I myself, while I was actively dealing with elevated antibodies for Hashimoto’s thyroiditis, went off gluten for years. But I have slowly reintroduced high quality gluten-based breads more and more, but mind you, only ones that have had a complete rise which eliminates most gluten, and after many years of my Hashimoto’s antibodies testing in the normal range. But I don’t go crazy with it because bread is a FODMAP and as someone with autoimmune IBS that causes SIBO to recur, I bloat when I eat too many FODMAPs.

But for those who don’t have recurrent SIBO or a known gluten sensitivity, it’s worth reintroducing high quality whole grain bread products. This is because lots of gluten-free foods lack essential nutrients like folic acid and iron, or they contain less fiber, and may be higher in sugar and fat compared to their gluten-containing counterparts, or are dominated by white rice flour, opening up the possibility of arsenic toxicity, due to the high levels of arsenic in certain types of rice. But just a quick note to say that I was worried about the whole arsenic in rice thing for a while and consequently made a real effort to not use rice flour in my gluten-free baking, but rather use a mixture of millet, sorghum, cassava, oat flour and tapioca starch in my homemade gluten-free flour, and just use some high quality gluten-free bread products from Food for Life and rice/corn chips like the Lundberg ones and only occasional rice flour based products from a local bakery. And then I was eating primarily white jasmine rice at the time. And when I did a hair mineral analysis a number of months back, I had no arsenic show up at all. But anyway, the idea that gluten-free diets are universally more nutritious or prevent disease has not been scientifically proven, so it’s important to figure out what is a genuine medical condition or sensitivity before making a final decision on gluten.

5. A healthy gut is solely determined by diet

I have a lot of clients who doggedly pursue dietary changes from paleo to keto to carnivore to fasting to long-term low FODMAPs or low-oxalate or low-histamine diets or some combo thereof in an effort to improve their gut health. And in the course of this, I find that they can get in a dangerous downward spiral quickly where their body is used to so few foods, they react to almost everything. While I definitely approve of advocating for yourself and trying as much as you can on your own and in assistance of any protocols I might recommend, diet is just one piece of the puzzle when it comes to restoring gut health and maintaining a healthy gut. In many cases with overgrown bacteria or candida, antimicrobial herbs or spore-based probiotics, or serum bovine immunoglobulins may be necessary to eliminate pathogens as well. Then on top of that, various lifestyle and environmental factors also significantly influence your gut microbiota. Habits like smoking and a lack of exercise, for instance, can have a substantial impact on the large bowel and potentially the gut microbiota, increasing the risk of gastritis and colorectal cancer. Stress, through its influence on colonic motor activity via the gut-brain axis and increase in cortisol resulting in increased blood sugar, can alter the gut microbiota, possibly reducing the presence of beneficial bacteria and contributing to IBS-like symptoms. Underlying health conditions, such as diabetes, prediabetes and autoimmune disorders can further complicate gut health. Beyond lifestyle and health, factors like poor sleep patterns and even travel can also affect gut health. Sleep deprivation has been linked to changes in gut microbiota and increased gut inflammation, while travel, especially to foreign destinations, raises the risk of contracting parasites and bacterial infections that impact gut health. So, while diet is a crucial component of gut health, it’s only one piece of the puzzle. A holistic approach that includes managing stress, getting regular exercise, and considering other factors is essential for promoting and maintaining a healthy gut.

6. The more fiber, the better

While most people who consume a typical western diet don’t get enough fiber, consuming too much fiber in the wrong situation or too quickly can have negative effects on your digestive system and overall health too. While dietary fiber offers several benefits, including improved stool consistency, regularity, digestion, and potential protection against diseases like cardiovascular issues and colon cancer, it’s important to know when and how to introduce added fiber. The recommended adequate Intake for fiber is around 25 grams for adult women and 38 grams for adult men, and ideally this should come from your food, but if you can’t get enough from your food, and decide to take a fiber supplement, you should do it gradually. Even adding fiber via food like beans is ideally done more slowly. Most people know that a sudden intake of beans leads to gas, which is because most people’s microbiota doesn’t have enough of the gas-eating bacteria that feed on the gas produced by the microbes that ferment the beans into gas. So if you’re on a long-term fiber increasing plan, it’s best to start with a tablespoon of beans or lentils, ideally cooked from dry beans, properly soaked and rinsed (and I mention beans and lentils as they’re some of the highest-fiber foods) and work your way up to ½ cup a day or more. And for a fiber supplement, start with a pinch and work your way up to 5 or 7 grams a day. Rapidly upping your fiber intake can lead to gastrointestinal discomfort, as the bacteria in your gut may digest the excess fiber, resulting in gas, bloating, cramps, and abdominal pain. Or for people with constipation, excess fiber may stop you up even more if you don’t pick the right one or haven’t done other things to promote motility first. Moreover, excessive fiber can hinder calcium absorption, potentially causing more harm than good, so you’ll want to take that excess fiber away from supplements and meals. Promoting unrestricted fiber consumption as a strategy for appetite suppression, fullness, and weight loss is not a healthy approach. Balancing your fiber intake and gradually increasing it in line with your individual needs, conditions and tolerance is the key to reaping its benefits without adverse side effects. And if you want more info on fiber types, I did a whole episode on fiber in episode 96, which I’ll link in the show notes.

So that’s the six gut health myths for today. As always, if you want some professional help, I work with clients with gut and all over chronic health issues. So if you’re struggling with  bloating, constipation, diarrhea, soft stool, acid reflux, IBS, IBD or any type of chronic disease, etc. and want to get to the bottom of it, that’s what I help my clients with. You’re welcome to set up a free, 30-minute breakthrough session with me (Lindsey). We’ll talk about what you’ve been going through and I’ll tell you about my 3- and 5- appointment health coaching programs in which I recommend lab tests, educate you on what the results mean and the protocols used by doctors to fix the problems revealed. Or if you’re ready to jump in right away or can just afford one appointment at a time, you can set up an 1-hour consultation with me. 

Schedule a breakthrough session now

From Bloating to Eczema: The Gut-Skin Connection Demystified with Loredana Shapson, PharmD

From Bloating to Eczema: The Gut-Skin Connection Demystified with Loredana Shapson, PharmD

As featured on Feedspot as #18 in gut health blogs!

Adapted from episode 107 of The Perfect Stool podcast hosted by Lindsey Parsons, EdD, Gut Health Coach and edited for readability with Dr. Loredana Shapson, PharmD, FNTP, founder of LifeMod Solutions, a holistic health practice in Newtown, PA.

Lindsey:  

So why don’t we start with your gut health story? I know your history involves taking a lot of antibiotics, much like mine and many of my listeners.

Loredana Shapson:  

Yeah. Which ended up taking a turn for the worse after that course. So I suffered from constipation for most of my life since I was a teenager. I would only go to the bathroom maybe once or twice a week. If I did, it was not very satisfying. It was small, little pebbles, nothing. Then eventually, as I got older, I started to bloat and it would happen randomly and unpredictably, with certain foods and sometimes not others. Like anybody else, I started to look on the internet. What’s causing my bloating? What could this be? I started putting myself on supplements, and I started working with a couple of gut specialists. Even after working with some of these people, and doing a lot of stool tests, and SIBO tests, and all of that, I still wasn’t getting some of the results that I had desired. But I’d spent a lot of money seeing some of these people.

Eventually I got put on an antibiotic. After I got put on that antibiotic, my gut symptoms actually got worse, not better. So when before I was bloating randomly, it was now happening every single day. When I would wake up in the morning, I would have a flat stomach, and then I would drink water. Then boom, I would look like I was nine months pregnant. It was that drastic. So I had extreme food restrictions, I couldn’t even take a bite of avocado or not even a teaspoon of fermented food, no liquid, nothing. I was so triggered by all that. When I had my bloating, I also had mood issues, like irritability and  anxiety and focus issues. I couldn’t sleep very well, I had trouble losing weight. I was just realizing that my gut is connected to my entire body and affects all other parts of my body.

With my background in pharmacy, I eventually researched how to fix gut health. I found some shortcuts. Now I’m using everything that I did with myself with my patients. I’ve been treating patients for about two years now, specifically for gut health and for that particular focus. It’s been really awesome to see the increased healing, the less supplements that are needed, the more food they can bring back in sooner. It’s exciting to be here on this podcast. I’m happy to be on your show today to share some helpful tips for your listeners.

Lindsey:  

Yeah, that’s awesome. So did you figure out it was SIBO in your case? Was it methane SIBO? What was going on?

Loredana Shapson:  

Yeah, so I did take a SIBO breath test. It was both. I had a mixture of everything. I had four stool tests over the course of two years. And the stool tests didn’t really provide much data for me. I mean, it did show that inflammatory markers were up, but obviously if your gut’s imbalanced, your inflammation is going to be up as well. So it showed dysbiosis. But it didn’t really change the way that my functional medicine doctor at the time was was going to go after helping me. But yeah, it was methane SIBO and I just remember spending a lot of money on supplements. I think at one point I was on like 18 different things. It was crazy.

Lindsey:  

I can believe it. So we did agree to focus on bloating in this episode. And that’s, I guess, where you’ve started focusing your practice. So talk to me about the different causes of bloating.

Loredana Shapson:  

I like to funnel bloating into two sections. So first and foremost, it is imbalanced gut bacteria, whether that’s an overgrowth of something and not enough of another. We can have SIBO, which you just mentioned, which is the bacterial overgrowth, and then there’s also SIFO, which is fungal overgrowth. I see a ton of that in my office. And then we also have SIPO, which is parasitic overgrowth. So all of these can be imbalanced from one level to another, and they can cause bloating.

The question is, how do we get an imbalanced gut? I’m sure you’ve talked about this on your podcast before, but it’s antibiotics in prescriptions, antibiotics in our foods, and other prescriptions can cause bloating. There’s also things like the pesticides and herbicides, preservatives, all of these things that kill bugs; chlorine in tap water. All of these things are going to create imbalances in our gut. So that’s first and foremost. And then the secondary part of this picture is low digestive enzyme release. So what causes that? Well, first the gut imbalance can lead to that. The secondary thing is stress. I like to funnel stress into three little tubes where first is physical stress. Say you fell, you had a surgery, whatever it is, your body’s in physical stress, and it’s turning on your sympathetic nervous system, which is your fight or flight response. The next is emotional stress. Maybe you have a really big project at work or you’re fighting with your partner, that emotional stress triggers your fight or flight response. Then the next is chemical stress, which is things like pesticides or herbicides, antibiotics. It could even be heavy metals and the things that are in our personal care products that are causing stress on our body.

And the bottom line here is, whenever your stress is on, and your fight or flight is on, your digestive system turns off, which we call your rest and digest nervous system. So when I approach healing my patients, we got to give the patients digestive enzymes now, because they’re not making enough right now, whatever their cause is, it doesn’t matter, we want you to feel good. So digestive enzymes come first. And then we work on imbalance in the gut, which has to do with your diet,  supplements, and probiotics, so on and so forth.

Lindsey:  

So how do you approach testing in your patients? Are you running stool tests and seeing their enzymes are low?

Loredana Shapson:  

No. So I actually don’t run any stool tests on any of my patients, and I’m still getting pretty awesome results. And so the reason why I do that is because the clinical research is showing that, yes, stool tests are great in clinical research because they’re understanding what therapies do and how it affects the gut microbiome. But I want to bring up one particular study, it was a meta analysis. Meta analysis for those of you that don’t know is almost like the second best type of research that you can use to apply to patients compared to randomized clinical controlled trials. There was a study done in 2019. This was a meta analysis that included 11 trials, and it had over 729 patients. And what they wanted to look at was “Do prebiotics help IBS symptoms?” They compared prebiotics users to a placebo group. I know we’re not talking about prebiotics right now, but it was interesting in this study that they looked at stool tests from patients before and after.

When they looked at the study results, prebiotics did not improve GI symptoms, it didn’t improve quality of life, it didn’t improve functional bowel disorders, it didn’t improve bloating, or gas or abdominal pain. What they did see was in the stool tests that the Bifido group did grow. So even though the stool test looked a little bit better from when they got started, it still didn’t equate to the patient feeling better symptomatically. So that’s one study that really stood out to me to say that we need to step away sometimes from taking all of these stool tests, and all of this lab work and focusing on the numbers for patients. What I particularly focus on is how do you feel? Are you getting better? Is your bloating going down? Those are more of what I focus on in a lot of my patients.

There was another study done in SIBO patients where they did a SIBO breath test. They wanted to see if they could use a SIBO test to determine how they would respond to a low FODMAP diet. After this study, what they found was it wasn’t the levels of methane or hydrogen that really determine the response rates. What determined whether somebody was going to do well on a low FODMAP diet was their symptoms at the time that they were started. The more severe symptoms they had, the better that they would respond to a low FODMAP diet. So that was an interesting kind of a study too, because it shows us that the test, even though it’s positive, doesn’t always show that they’re going to feel a certain way.

Lindsey:  

What about H. pylori? I mean, that’s one where I really like to know about when I go into working with someone. Without a test you can’t know if they have it or if it’s overgrown.

Loredana Shapson:  

So H. pylori is definitely something that I haven’t had to test here in my office. I would like to know if my patients have had the test done with their GI doctors, because that does change things a little bit because H. pylori can cause ulcers. One thing that I ask my patients whenever I think H. pylori is an issue for them is: are you having pain? Is it really harmful? Are you having cramps, and is it really uncomfortable? Another thing that cues me into that is are you taking a Betaine HCl* supplement or an acidic supplement for digestion? If that’s causing you pain when you take it, or even if vinegar bothers your stomach and causes you pain, then maybe you have an ulcer. Maybe that could be from H. Pylori. So that would be a different scenario. I haven’t seen too many H. Pylori patients in my office. But I know that at the end of the day, what we find is that as soon as you come in with the good probiotics, everything starts to rebalance.

Lindsey:  

And what about testing for SIBO? And using Organic Acids? Do you do that at all?

Loredana Shapson:  

I have. Yeah, that’s probably the test I run the most in my office is the urinary OAT by Great Plains. And I will check that in my patients when they have severe issues if they really want to know. It’s not typically covered by insurance plans, and you’re going to spend at least $300 to $350. So if the patient really wants it at the start, I will give it to them, but otherwise, if we go down this course of taking care of SIFO, usually I’ll pull that urinary test about four to six months in so that we can see how we are doing. Is there still an issue there? We always want those numbers to be in the lower 20th percentile for the markers one through nine.

Lindsey:  

So how do you approach treating people with gastrointestinal issues if you’re starting without a test?

Loredana Shapson:  

We look at symptoms. I mean, first and foremost, it’s digestive enzymes. That’s key. We start with diet and enzymes to get things moving. So number one, if they’re not pooping, we get them pooping. If they’re having diarrhea, we try to stop their diarrhea because they’re not absorbing their nutrients efficiently. So that’s correction number one is to fix their stool frequency, whether it’s constipation or diarrhea. Usually, once you add a digestive enzyme, it can rebalance on its own. Constipation gets better with digestive enzymes, because you’re breaking down your food better. We find that once you start increasing the acidity of the stomach, that you’re actually already beginning to correct the imbalance of the gut, because stomach acid’s important for killing bad guys that aren’t supposed to be there. It’s why we have stomach acid, because we were bringing in a ton of microbes through our mouth on our food and everything that we’re touching. Once we start increasing the stomach acidity, we’re rebalancing the gut inherently just by doing that. So I usually start with enzymes, and then add either something to help them poop if they’re not pooping, or whatever they need to do to slow down their pooping, if it’s an issue with diarrhea. Once they’re on that for a couple of weeks, then we start thinking about probiotics.

Lindsey:  

Are you doing enzymes that have Betaine HCl in them? Or is that separate?

Loredana Shapson:  

So we’re doing Betaine HCl separately, and then if they require another enzyme, depending on how severe their bloating is, I’ll add another enzyme that has everything for protein and fats and other carbohydrates and different fibers and cellulose and all those. Generally, I do really well with just a betaine supplement.

Lindsey:  

So when you were saying enzymes, really, you’re talking about betaine HCl?

Yeah, generally, betaine is a big fix. If you think about the way the digestive system works, I call it a three legged stool, right? You got your stomach, your pancreas and your gallbladder. And if one of those legs are kicked out, the whole system kind of collapses. But the core of that three legged stool is the stomach, because once you have enough stomach acid, that triggers the pancreas to release appropriately. And then once that happens, the gallbladder releases appropriately as well. So it’s really the stomach acid that determines the next chain of events down below. If you fix stomach acid, you’re automatically going to fix the enzyme release.

Lindsey:  

And will you give Betaine HCl to someone who is actively suffering from what seems like reflux?

Loredana Shapson:  

Yes, that’s actually what I recommend to patients who have reflux. It’s often a difficult conversation to have, they don’t understand. They’ll say: wait a minute, I have acid reflux, and you want me to add acid? And I say yes. I often tell my patients what you can use in your kitchen is vinegar. I like apple cider vinegar, because it is a probiotic, but any vinegar works, as long as it doesn’t have sugar. Take a tablespoon of vinegar, and one to three ounces of water. Take that down, and then wait at least an hour before you drink any other liquids, because you want that acidity to do its job. But ideally, if you’re feeling acid reflux, you’re not digesting your foods properly and it’s sitting for too long in your belly. It’s pushing that valve open and causing acid reflux and little drops of acid are getting into the esophagus where they shouldn’t be. So you just want to keep things moving downward, which you do with acidity, and, boom, you’re not going to have that problem. So I definitely recommend that to all my patients when they have acid reflux, either use vinegar or betaine, and get rid of it.

Lindsey:  

And are you using the vinegar before the meal because you said to not to drink anything else after that?

Loredana Shapson:  

Yeah, so you could use vinegar to help with your acid reflux symptoms at that moment. And then also, you can take it at meal time. I’m not particular with taking it at the beginning of the meal, during the meal, or after. As long as it’s with the food, it’s going to do its job. I like to simplify things. One of the things that bothers me about some of the gut health stuff that’s out there is that they make directions very complicated. It has to be an empty stomach, not an empty stomach, before food, one hour before food, an hour after eating. I find that compliance with my patients becomes very difficult at that point. So for me, I don’t care. Take your vinegar before, during or after, either way, the patient always seems to get benefit. And so clinically, I’m seeing that it doesn’t really matter. But obviously everybody’s different. And you have to try for yourself to see what works for you and your patients. I mean, do you notice any patterns or trends in your patients who take vinegar before or during or after?

Lindsey:  

I usually don’t know that level of detail with my clients. You know, I say that this is something that you take with a meal. Whether they take it at the beginning or the middle of the meal, I don’t know.

Loredana Shapson:  

Yeah, so that’s the thing.  I hope people can see that it doesn’t have to be as complicated as everyone makes it out to be.

Lindsey:  

I was just curious because you said to not drink anything else after. So you’re basically telling people to eat without drinking?

Loredana Shapson:  

Oh, yeah. 100%. You don’t want to drink a lot of liquids with your meals because it’s going to dilute your stomach juices. We want to maintain the acidity in our stomach. The more water you’re adding to it, you’re going to slow digestion down. It’s going to increase your risk for bloat. You’re going to feel full with a distended belly. What I always tell my patients is that hydration has to be between meals with room temperature water, about a half hour before you eat or an hour after you eat.

Lindsey:  

I find that very challenging. Personally, I take all my supplements with my meals, so I have to drink as I can’t get them down without it.

Loredana Shapson:  

You can certainly sip as needed, but you should not be chugging a full glass of water.

Lindsey:  

So is there a particular enzyme product you like?

Loredana Shapson:  

I like standard process Zypan* because it has betaine in there, but it also has some pancreatic enzymes. So that’s what the Zypan stands for, Zy for enzyme and pan for pancreas. There’s a little bit of pancreatic enzymes in there. Plus some betaine. And there’s also some organ meat tissue in there too, which is really healing. There’s some spleen tissue, and they all help heal the gut.

Lindsey:  

And do you do the betaine with the challenge approach where you start with one pill, then increase? 

No, I usually find patients do really well with two pills. If they have severe bloating, we’ll do three with each meal. Two seems to be like the magic number. And then once we get probiotics on board, I find that the Zypan dose ends up coming down to one with each meal, and then only as needed if they have acid reflux. Typically at that point, it’s usually not an issue anymore. And then eventually, once the probiotics are on board for a couple of weeks, Zypan falls off. I think the probiotics start coming in, and they start helping you break down your food, you don’t need the enzymes anymore.

Lindsey:  

So what kind of probiotics are you using?

Loredana Shapson:  

Oh, my favorite one is Megasporebiotic* by Microbiome Labs. They’re my flagship probiotic, it’s so well tolerated in a lot of my patients, because they’re non-histamine forming probiotics. So that’s the one I always start my patients on. And you know, everybody’s a little bit different on the starting dose. I don’t follow the directions on the bottle. I never do that for any of my gut supplements. I always start at a quarter of the dose that’s recommended on the serving size. Anytime you’re doing anything with the gut, slow and steady. So even if it says two capsules, don’t start there. Maybe do one capsule every other day. You’ll be on that for a week, and then you go to one a day. But I find that slow and steady wins the race here. You’re less likely to have those Herxheimer reactions and those negative, sick reactions that most people hate. You lose a patient quickly if they have a bad reaction.

And so if you see someone with diarrhea that’s not clearing up with enzymes and Megaspore, where do you go from there?  So at that point, I go to gut inflammation. Biotics research has a product called GI Resolve*. That one includes gut soothing and healing nutrients with N-acetyl D-glucosamine and aloe vera. You’re basically reducing inflammation. Then another product I will try specifically with my patients who have a lot of immune issues, histamine reactions, Crohn’s, or ulcerative colitis is MegaMucosa* by Microbiome Labs. That’s a great one. But I find that the GI Resolve is my go-to and then MegaMucosa is what I’ll bring in a little later. And that usually repairs the gut, I find that two or three days after starting that, diarrhea goes away, and patients start to have more firm stools. And I see that if they have blood in their stool, that goes away as well. So we’re really healing the gut with those nutrients for sealing it, reducing inflammation. That’s going to help with the bowel so you’re not pushing your stool out so quickly.

Lindsey:  

So I’m curious, because I just had someone who told me they started GI Resolve, and then their gut felt like it went on fire. And I thought that was odd, because that product is something that’s supposed to heal and seal. What would you make of that?

Loredana Shapson:  

My initial instinct is to say that they need a binder. So whatever healing reaction is occurring, they’re probably releasing a lot of trash. And oftentimes, a binder is going to mop up that stuff. So I like GI Detox* by Bio Botanical Research. That’s a pretty good starter binder that you could add, but obviously you have to leave two hours between taking that and any other supplements or food. But that’s my instinct. If something goes awry, you lower the dose to be extremely slow. I’ll start people on that by taking one teaspoon. I always start low and slow, then increase every week. They’ll be on it for six weeks, which is more than they’ll ever need, but it’s still a good way to do it.

Lindsey:  

And how do you approach SIFO or Candida?

Loredana Shapson:  

Yeah, so SIFO is interesting. I see a lot of that in my office, unfortunately. So what we do there is basically the same starting approach because as we correct the digestive enzymes and the acidity, you’ll start to rebalance the gut. The next thing is you start getting into probiotics, they’re going to start balancing out the SIFO and the fungal overgrowth. Sometimes in most cases, I do have to add in a fungal product, which is an herbal product that gently gets rid of the Candida and the yeast. So my favorite product to start people on is by Systemic Formulas called Fungdx*. It’s a great product that’s really well tolerated. Systemic Formulas tells you to do two pills in the morning and two at night. I don’t do that dose; it’s too high. I find that people have negative reactions from die off. I start people on one a day.

And what I have found is that SIFO requires a long haul kind of approach. I’ve had to care for patients through SIFO for up to eight months. It takes some time to totally be eliminated, unfortunately. It’s a slow and steady process. So the more herbals that you add, you absolutely have to add binders too because of the die off. The mycotoxins that die off releases, in general, are some of the worst. They can cause so many issues from anxiety to weight gain, irritability, bloating. It can cause a lot of problems. So always paired with SIFO, if I ever put an herbal product on, is a binder for the whole time they’re on an herbal product. I find that when I don’t, the patient has Herxheimer reactions, they have bad reactions from it. So one of my favorite binders is by CellCore. They have a binder called Biotoxin Binder* (purchase using patient direct code: I0rdLMOm). And it’s specifically formulated to catch yeast and mold toxins. And so that one is expensive, but worth every penny.

As a case study, I had a 30 year old female in my office and she had sores all over her body, up and down. They would show up as red inflamed, and they would ooze, then they would heal over and scar. So she was embarrassed. Summertime was coming up. She didn’t want to wear shorts. She’d been to a dermatologist. She had been to doctors, and nobody was able to help her. I uncovered in my office that it was an overgrowth of fungus because she had had so many antibiotics since childhood for sinus infections, that fungus overgrew. As soon as I put the biotoxin binder on, all of her sores, new ones stopped opening up, which was a great sign. They just stopped forming. Unfortunately, the ones that scarred over were still there. But just by adding that binder, we saw a huge shift in the amount of new sores that were coming out. So yeah, I can’t rave about that particular product enough when it comes to SIFO. Have you heard of CellCore before? Have you used their products before?

Lindsey:  

I have heard of CellCore, but I don’t generally use it. They’re not available through Fullscript. So it’s like you got to send somebody to it separately. Their products are not cheap, too. So that’s an issue. But yeah, I do have access to them and have used them with some people.

Loredana Shapson:  

That’s my limitation too with them. They’re a great product line, but they’re too expensive. I only pull those big guns out when I need to.

Lindsey:  

Can you dig in a little bit more about that skin-gut connection? People might be asking why those two parts of the body are connected. Is it literally the yeast coming out of the skin?

Loredana Shapson:  

It’s a great question. And so whatever’s happening on your skin is a representation of what’s happening in your gut. And this goes for acne, for eczema, not just sores and all of that. But the gut lining and the skin and even your nasal passages, all those mucous membranes are made up of the same cells. They’re responding to the same influences, which is the fungal infection in the gut. I think it’s just an imbalance in the gut. And then yes, you could be releasing mycotoxins from your skin and it’s just coming out as irritation. Anytime you have a skin thing, always think of the gut and once you start rebalancing the gut, the skin always gets better.

Lindsey:  

I have had some people with super persistent skin issues like eczema that just keeps coming back. Even through multiple rounds of every possible probiotic, you can imagine, every possible antifungal, antimicrobial, the condition still just keeps coming back.

Loredana Shapson:  

Can I dive in a little more? How long have they been on the probiotics?

Lindsey:  

Continuously, for years. Probably for a year. 

Loredana Shapson:  

Okay. And then what products do you use for fungal?

Lindsey:  

So a lot of times, you have clients who go off on their own and get their own products. So this patient was using a variety of products, but there was one in particular that was a combo antifungal that had berberine, caprylic acid, undecylenic acid, and grapefruit seed extract, which I try and avoid because I know that that really decimates the microbiome, but that was something that he decided to take on his own. 

Loredana Shapson:  

Oh, interesting because I use grapefruit seed extract* in my mold patients, but I’m not getting negative results to their health after using it.

Lindsey:  

Well, sure, they make people feel better. I just see on the stool reports that after taking grapefruit seed, then their Akkermansia disappears.

Loredana Shapson:  

I would say that one thing to look at if their eczema is still coming back is the type of probiotic that they’re using and the quality of it, and how long they’ve been taking it. So that’s a minimum of three months every single day and they should have a blend of the spore-based probiotics. The Lacto-Bifido is going to be even more important than the spore-based ones. And then you have to rotate your SIFO products every two months. You should always be changing your SIFO herbals because of resistance and that kind of thing.

The other thing to think about is the environment. So are they continually exposed to something where they’re living or where they work that exposes them to mold that they are not aware of? I personally went through a mold infection twice with two different exposures, one at work and one living with my in-laws for a little bit when my house was under construction. I noticed it because my gums were bleeding every morning, and it happened like day two of me moving in. I didn’t understand why. Then I started developing anxiety, and I started to have irritability and I just felt completely off. A couple of months in, I found out they had mold in their basement. I’m like a little mold thermometer now. I was able to help my in-laws with that. It takes a long time. I would say try to have the SIFO products rotating every two months for a minimum of eight months, and then checking their environment.

Lindsey:  

And would you continue the SIFO products that long for anybody who’s positive? Or is this more in proportion to the numbers that you’re seeing on the test?

Loredana Shapson:  

Yeah, I would say numbers on the test is where I go when deciding the length of treatment. But I have seen that eight months is usually my average. So with patients who are struggling with eczema, do you find that you’ve been on up to eight months worth of SIFO supplements?

Lindsey:  

At least three months of Megaspore, two per day, and CanXita Remove for at least six to nine months.

Loredana Shapson:  

I find a good combo that I like to use is Candida Complex* by Klaire Labs. I do also use grapefruit seed extract twice a day with Candida Complex. I find that that combo works really well.

Lindsey:  

It’s powerful. That’s the dilemma, right?

Loredana Shapson:  

Yeah, I think that while Akkermansia goes down, I feel like the short term benefit of getting rid of that yeast and mold is more beneficial than worrying about Akkermansia. Because it’s going to be very easy to bring back Akkermansia after the fungus goes away. So I think that the benefits outweigh the risks in this situation. I would use grapeseed. I’m speaking from my clinical experience, too. I’ve had patients do really well on that. But again, I’m also not pulling stool tests like you are to see the difference. But all I know is my patients are feeling better, their pain is going away, their headaches go away, so I would maybe try something different. Another thing I would think about too is a gut healing nutrient again, like GI Resolve. Any of those products just to seal the gut up again.

Lindsey:  

The funny thing in this particular case was the thing that would clear this eczema was doxycycline. The patient would keep going back to the doctor and getting doxycycline. So I’m wondering, is it bacterial? Is it not fungal?

Loredana Shapson:  

Yeah, interesting.

Lindsey:  

It’s tricky. I’m sure you have tricky cases. Everybody does. 

Loredana Shapson:  

Doxycycline is such a big gun to use, because it’s a broad spectrum antibiotic. So I feel like in the long run that’s making the SIFO go up. That’s not helping in the long term.

Lindsey:  

I certainly tried to get him off it, but it’s the only thing that would clear it, and it’s on his face. So of course he’s worried about that.

Loredana Shapson:  

Yeah. Then topically, grassfed tallow* is really soothing for skin stuff. So give that a shot to just keep the issue at bay while you’re working on the underlying stuff.

Lindsey:  

I’ve never heard of that. That’s interesting.

Loredana Shapson:  

Yeah. You have to go back to animals and animal fats.

Lindsey:  

So you mentioned Lacto-Bifido probiotics too, which ones do you like there?

Loredana Shapson:  

Yeah, so I like Designs for Health Probiomed 50*. So when it comes to probiotics, I’m glad we’re touching on this. It’s really interesting. The question I get is, oh, my gosh, there’s so many probiotics out there. How much do I take? 10 million, 25 billion, 100 billion, there’s all these doses that are out there? Do I take it on an empty stomach? Should it be refrigerated? It’s become this intimidating thing. And here’s the answer. Here’s the summary. It doesn’t matter what the heck you take, just take it every single day. It doesn’t matter, once a day is all you need. And the clinical research is showing that a lot of these meta analyses, when we pull together these trials where we’re studying 4000 patients, 7000 patients, all of these trials, the average dose is about 25 billion. It’s not that high. But the range is from 10 billion up to 100. You’ll see 100 billion in some of the IBD cases, like Crohn’s and Ulcerative Colitis. But still, the average over all of these is about 25. So what I use in my office at the start is Probiomed 50. That is 50 billion. And I find if I use anything higher than that, they get negative reactions. So I avoid that.

Lindsey:  

And that’s a combo Lacto/Bifido, multi-strain kind of affair?

Loredana Shapson:  

Yeah. 

Lindsey:  

And does it have streptococcus strains in there?

Loredana Shapson:  

No, I avoid streptococcus and I actually avoid Saccharomyces boulardii as well.

Lindsey:  

It’s so funny about this; there’s people who love Saccharomyces boulardii and people who hate it.

Loredana Shapson:  

Yeah, yeah, I know. It’s like a catch-22. I don’t like it because of the urinary tests that I’ve run. I’ve also run some food sensitivity panels on some of my patients and a lot of them show antibodies against Saccharomyces. So I try to avoid more fungal stuff; that’s a fungal strain. And so the body doesn’t want fungus right now. And I find that 100% of my patients are overgrown with fungus because of the way we live our lives and the diets that we eat, high in sugar and refined carbs, and antibiotics and environmental exposures as well. So I really just focus on the Bifido and Lacto, and the Bacillus, the spore-based species, and I get really good results. And after that, eventually, a couple months in, we’ll start adding fiber supplements and that’ll help also with the growth of the good bacteria as well.

Lindsey:  

Okay, so not prebiotics, but fiber in particular.

Loredana Shapson:  

Yeah, like in the beginning, I’ll start with soluble fiber. There are basically two types of prebiotics, there’s the insulin type, which is like your FOS, the fructans and the galactooligosaccharides, the GOS. Those can cause bloating; they’re fermentable. I mean, that’s just what they are. They’re the inulin type. The others are non-inulin types. So these are things like guar gum and pectin, and these are the ones that won’t cause bloating, the 2′-FL.

Lindsey:  

The HMOs. 

Loredana Shapson:  

Yes, exactly. Yep. So the human milk oligosaccharides. And so they’re not fermentable, they don’t cause gas or bloating. So I’ll usually start my patients with fiber like that first, after they’ve been on the two probiotic types for at least a month or two. And then we’ll start bringing in some fiber. And again, that study I brought up earlier in this conversation, that was the study that really was like, wow, prebiotics are not the fix when you try to feel better. Now when it comes to IBS and bloating and abdominal pain.

Lindsey:  

 Well, yeah no, the last thing you need to do is add more food for . . . 

Loredana Shapson:  

Yeah, exactly. So we do that later on, once the good guys are back in. So yeah, my favorite product to start, which is really well tolerated, is by Thorne Research, and that one’s Fibermend*. My patients do really well with that at the start. But again, the directions are for one scoop. I never start there, I go to one quarter of it. And then we stay there for a week or two. And then we go up a little bit. Here’s another thing to a lot of the research with prebiotics and fiber; the doses that they’re using, the average dose is about five grams. So when you look at some of these fiber products, one scoop is sometimes 11 grams per serving; that’s too much. So we’re even seeing in clinical research, less is better. It’s a slow and steady thing. So where do you max out then? So that usually I’ll usually keep people at a half a scoop, but I have more people up to one, it takes about a month to get there. But we’ll get to one scoop and we stay there for a little bit. And then eventually I’ll add MegaPre.

Lindsey:  

And if they take more, then they end up getting bloated again?

Loredana Shapson:  

Yeah, like sometimes they’ll just have a negative reaction. So everyone’s a little bit different with how they respond. But obviously they don’t feel well. So okay, that was too much. Go back to what you were doing. We’re going to stay there for two more weeks, and then we’ll increase after that. Yeah, like think of your gut, like I tell my patients, it’s like you’re working a muscle out at the gym, you’re not going to go into the gym lifting a 50 pound pearl weight right away, you’re going to start at five pounds, you’ll start at 10. And then after a couple of weeks, you go a little more, you go a little more, your gut’s the same exact way.

Lindsey:  

So without doing stool testing, how would you approach parasites?

Loredana Shapson:  

Parasites, I usually uncover in the other testing that I do in my office, which is the muscle testing.

Lindsey:  

Okay, we haven’t talked about it on the show. I’m not big on muscle testing. But go ahead and just tell me what you do to determine if someone has parasites? 

Loredana Shapson:  

Yeah, sure. So I do something in my office called muscle testing. And it’s taught by chiropractors, the science of Applied Kinesiology. But basically, I put things near your body, and using the strength and the weakness of your muscle, it tells me whether your body likes it, or doesn’t like it. Is it something I want to talk about or not talk about? And so the reason why we’re able to do this is because we have this energy field that comes out around our body. We cannot see it, just like we can’t see our phones talking or the oxygen that we’re breathing. But we know it’s there. It’s this nice big bubble. And you know, people can take a picture of it. Some people call it your aura, whatever you want to call it. That’s in the medical literature. It’s called the biofield or the morphogenic field.

So when I’m putting things near your body, now it’s making an assessment “Do I like this or not”? Or is it significant to me? And so in my office, I have parasite vials and it has the digital imprint of what a parasite’s frequency is, what it vibrates at. So we’re energetic beings. Everything around us is vibrating. Everything in the universe has a unique frequency down to its decimal point, you can actually measure it, just like every human has a unique fingerprint. So aluminum vibrates at a particular frequency, mercury is different. So parasites are also different. They’re their own little living beings. And so in my office, I have parasite vials for flukes, amoebas, egg layers and non egg layers. 

Lindsey:  

Like live parasites? 

Loredana Shapson:  

No, it’s just the digital imprints in water. So it’s a vile, they have found that water has a memory, just like a computer system. So it’s for lack of a better word like electrified water, but it’s containing that digital frequency. So when I bring the parasitic frequency into your energy field, your body tells me whether this is significant or not. And if it shows up, then I know that they’re dealing with parasites. And that’s how I start my parasite protocol.

Lindsey:  

If they’re weak in response to a parasite, does that mean they’ve got it or if they’re strong?

Loredana Shapson:  

Depends on the test that you’re running. Generally, weakness is what is going to say like, yep, this makes me weak right now, this is an issue.

Lindsey:  

Yeah, no, that’s something I’ve just sort of stayed away from because I don’t understand or necessarily know about the science behind it. I’m open to anything that’s got peer reviewed research.

Loredana Shapson:  

Yes. And this does. I’ve got three studies I can send you about muscle testing. And it’s been paramount in the way that I approach my patients and it reduces Herxheimer reactions and helps me individualize nutritional supplements too.

Lindsey:  

We sort of discussed it, but if you wanted to summarize, is there a treatment order you follow in terms of things like parasites, yeast, bacteria, etc.

Loredana Shapson:  

When it comes to patients with bloating, I generally start with the enzymes and the probiotics. I used to go right in with an herbal product like Dysbiocide* or FC-Cidal* by Biotics Research and more herbals, and I really stepped away from that, because I went through that. I overdid it myself with herbal products. And what that was doing was tearing down my gut even more; it wasn’t rebuilding it back up. And so I just kept in this cycle of herbals and herbals and herbals, but never building. So I no longer do that approach with my patients, unless I find that when I start adding probiotics and for some reason, I can’t get them to adjust to it. They’re still having negative reactions. And I say, okay, they’re fighting each other too much. Let’s come in with a month of Dysbiocide or FC-Cidal, for the SIBO aspect of people. And then we’ll bring in the probiotic. And actually since I made that switch, I haven’t had to really go back to the Dysbiocide or FC-Cidal, I find that the digestive enzymes, the diet that we recommend, which is usually a paleo diet, and then the probiotics on board, I find that bloating goes away, I don’t need to use herbals and everything’s okay.

When it comes to SIFO, I generally like the Fungdx and the grapefruit seed extract along with a binder like Biotoxin Binder. And then when it comes to parasites, I really use a variety of products. Parasites are tricky, they are smart, they like to hide in biofilms. So especially for egg layers, I’ll do a cycle of 10 days with parasitic stuff, usually at bedtime, because that’s when parasites are the most active is at bedtime and you’ll know that because a lot of people grind their teeth at night. They’re jittery, their nervous system is super activated, they twitch. Those are signs of parasitic infections. And so usually a dose at night, 10 days on and then we stop for four days. And the reason why we stop is because that gives time for more eggs to hatch. And then once more eggs hatch, boom, you come at them again. In 10 days, you take another four days off. And we do that for about nine to 12 cycles. So that ends up being about four to five months.

Products I like to use, I use a variety of stuff because I find that once we get one product on, once that product’s done I have to switch to another one and have to switch to another one. Because each of the herbals can target the flukes or the amoebas or the egg layers. So it’s good to just rotate through them all. But I like Wormwood Complex by Mediherb. It is really great. They’re a part of Standard Process. The other one I like is Systemic Formulas. They actually have some great ones, they’re called VRM: VRM1*, VRM2, 3* and 4*. So 1 and 2 are for egg layers. Three, I can’t remember if they’re for amoebas and 4 are for flukes, but they’re going to cover all the types of parasites. So I usually rotate through those.  Sometimes I’ll double up and have like a 1 and a 3 on a board. And then a 2 or 4.

My muscle testing, they usually indicate which ones the body wants at that time. And then sometimes I have to put a binder on for my parasite people. A lot of people don’t realize that the fungus and the parasites, they also bind to chemicals. Fungus in particular is a really great heavy metal chelator. So they’re going to bind to aluminum and mercury and cadmium. And so when you start killing these guys, guess what they’re going to start releasing, chemicals and heavy metals and trash. So binders again, the GI Detox is a really great product. I usually do that if I’m having them do the parasitic protocol at night, then I’ll have them do the GI Detox first thing in the morning. As soon as they wake up on an empty stomach, take two of them. I also liked the binder by Systemic Formulas called Bind*. That one’s really great as well.

Lindsey:  

Did you ever use the Para 1*, Para 2* (purchase using patient direct code: I0rdLMOm), by CellCore?

Loredana Shapson:  

Yep, I do like that. I find that Para 2 only does really well with Para 1 in my muscle testing. So I usually pair those two together. Or Para 2 paired with one of my VRMs. I usually find that of the ingredients in parasitic stuff, like wormwood, clove, artemisia, those are the ones that are really big guns for parasites.

Lindsey:  

And there’s also the Biotonic*.

Loredana Shapson:  

I haven’t used Biotonic actually. 

Lindsey:  

Yeah, well, that’s nice too because it’s got the adrenal stuff in there. So it’s kind of a combo.

Loredana Shapson:  

Yeah, I like that, that’s another thing we haven’t talked about is adrenal support through all this.

Lindsey:  

Okay, let’s talk about it. What the heck?

Loredana Shapson:  

I mean, adrenal support, anything that has to do whenever your body’s under stress, I call the adrenal glands like kicking screaming children, they’re the first ones to fall on the floor and start flailing and going out of whack no matter what you’re going through, so they need support. So I really like ashwagandha and rhodiola as two herbal products that are wonderful for calming the adrenals down.

And then I also really, really like Biotics Research Bio-Glycozyme Forte*. That product is for sugar regulation, but within it, there’s also organ meats like hypothalamus, pituitary, adrenal gland, thyroid; there’s a lot of organ meats in there. And organ meats are paramount in healing; it’s one thing that we lack in our diet. Even if we wanted to get access to these things, it’s hard to find. And if you ask our ancestors, they all ate it, they all prized the organ meats; they ate the brain, they ate the heart, they ate everything. So I find that when you strengthen the organs with organ meats, you’re going to get a better, stronger response, hormonally, and with the adrenals as well. So Bio-Glycozyme Forte, I’d probably say 99% of my patients start on that first at the first visit. And they’re on that one three times a day. Yep. And that’s a wonderful product for blood sugar and adrenals. And then again, ashwagandha and rhodiola are some other ones. I bring in some ginseng too.

Lindsey:  

And does that matter to you whether they show signs of adrenal dysfunction? Or that’s just kind of everybody?

Loredana Shapson:  

Yeah, everyone’s got blood sugar issues. It’s just our diet and the way that we live our lives being so stressed out, we’re constantly so enzymes and Bio-Glycozyme Forte are my big guns that I always start with.

Lindsey:  

I’m not sure that you totally answered the question before in terms of order of operations. So if you find somebody has parasites, if they have fungi, if they have bacteria, is there an order that you address those?

Loredana Shapson:  

Yeah, great question. So yeah, I generally always go after parasites and fungus first. In terms of size, when we look at their size, they are the bigger ones that live in the body, and the smaller ones like to hide in the bigger guys. So I’ll usually go after fungus and parasites first or sometimes together. And then I’ll go after the bacteria. And usually once the probiotics come on board, it really balances out the bacteria.

Lindsey:  

I mean, there’s a lot of crossover really with herbals of what deals with what, right? Like I mean wormwood addresses bacteria to some extent, too, doesn’t it?

Loredana Shapson:  

Yeah, there is crossover with a lot of these, like berberine can do fungus and it can do bacteria. So there is crossover, so you’re going to get benefits on both ends. I find that the ones that work for parasites can also work for fungus. So that’s why you’re going to handle both together anyway.

Lindsey:  

Well, that was a lot of really good concrete information. I’m sure people are going to love all the takeaways.

Loredana Shapson:  

Yeah, there’s a lot in there.

Lindsey:  

And you can find all these products in my Fullscript dispensary.

Loredana Shapson:  

Yeah, there is an order for how these things should be added in. I wouldn’t jump on all these things at once. It’s a slow, steady process. That’s what we’re here for. Lindsey and I can help you through when to start what and for how long.

Lindsey:  

You can waste a lot of money on supplements trying to figure this out on your own. And I’ve discovered that there is a lot of complexity to this stuff over time and supplements are expensive. And if you take them in the wrong way, they can cause harm or they might not work and then you think okay, I’ve tried that. Unfortunately, then in your head “I’ve tried that” becomes a narrative that you then give to the next person you work with, which puts them at a loss for that thing. Okay, well, if you’ve tried that, and that didn’t work, but you maybe you didn’t try it quite the right way, then I don’t have that tool in my toolbox. Because I think okay, well, they’ve already tried it. So, it is better to get the help of someone. That’s the sad reality of it.

Loredana Shapson:  

Absolutely. There’s a lot of individuality here. One final comment on probiotics. A lot of the research is showing peak benefit of probiotic uses at two months and sometimes three months. And there’s some studies showing six months when it comes to eczema and skin to your point with your patient. That study was done in children but still they showed that the longer that they were on at the six month mark, people did better than three months of probiotics. So know that time is a thing. And I find that a lot of people come into my office, “Oh, I tried a probiotic for a couple of weeks and it didn’t work.” And I’m like no, no, you didn’t give it enough time or you were using the wrong one like Saccharomyces boulardii, or you know, one with strep, but I don’t really go to the start.

Lindsey:  

So tell me where people can find you. And do you see people who are outside of your area?

Loredana Shapson:  

Yeah, I work virtually and in person. I’m in Newtown, Pennsylvania, but I do  meetings over Zoom. And for people with bloating, I have a freebie on my website, you can go to my website and get my belly bloating fixer elixir tea, and you drink that every morning and that’s going to start fixing the underlying reason for low digestive enzyme release, part of your bloating problem. So I find that people who start that, their bloating reduces or distension comes down. Some people have lost weight in the first week – two pounds – acid reflux goes away. So really great things using stuff in your kitchen. So get your hands on that recipe for free on my website.

And then I also just released a two-week online gut course, also on my website. And I basically structure everything that I do with my patients and the protocol that I use with my patients in this two week program with education and access to all the supplements that we just talked about today and when to use them and why. And it also gives them direct contact with me, so that’s right on my homepage. It’s called “Bye Bye Bloat: Eliminate Bloat in Two Weeks for Good,” so check that out. I specialize in women so I mean, anyone can really do that program to be honest with you, but women is who I typically work with in my office, and I have a YouTube page. I’ve got free health tips there. You can also find me on my Instagram and Facebook.

And if you’re struggling with  bloating, constipation, diarrhea, soft stool, acid reflux, IBS, IBD or any type of chronic disease, etc. and want to get to the bottom of it, that’s what I help my clients with. You’re welcome to set up a free, 30-minute breakthrough session with me (Lindsey). We’ll talk about what you’ve been going through and I’ll tell you about my 3- and 5- appointment health coaching programs in which I recommend lab tests, educate you on what the results mean and the protocols used by doctors to fix the problems revealed. Or if you’re ready to jump in right away or can just afford one appointment at a time, you can set up an 1-hour consultation with me. 

Schedule a breakthrough session now

Nature’s Bounty Unleashed: Fermentation’s Transformative Potential with Holly Howe

As featured on Feedspot as #18 in gut health blogs!

Adapted from episode 106 of The Perfect Stool podcast hosted by Lindsey Parsons, EdD, Gut Health Coach, and edited for readability.

Lindsey: 

Tell me about what the benefits of fermentation are over probiotics, and what fermentation is.

Holly Howe: 

Okay, it’s a great place to start. Let’s start first with fermentation. And the way I like to look at fermentation is that we’re taking vegetables, and we’re transforming them into gold. They become magical foods that improve our gut health. We can’t do it alone; we need the help of bacteria and the microbial world. These vegetables come with bacteria. As the plants are growing, the bacteria nestle on these vegetables, and we set up a home for them through fermentation, packing foods into a jar or crock. These bacteria get in there, they eat the sugars, and they transform them into lactic acid, which is a digestive aid and a preservative. All of a sudden that lowly cabbage has turned into this gold that helps us with digestion, takes care of our gut microbiome, adds probiotics, prebiotics, and all sorts of wonderful nutrients to our diet. It’s through the ingestion of these fermented foods that we can improve our gut microbiome and our overall health.

People think probiotic capsules in a jar that you can buy off the shelf in a grocery store are easy and convenient. You’re popping a pill. It’s that easy. We can get ourselves in trouble with probiotics. It’s a multimillion dollar industry, and we just have to be careful with why we’re taking their probiotics and what they’re for. Probiotics are designed around a few specific species of bacteria that scientists and biologists have thought our bodies need. When we take a probiotic, we’re taking billions of this one singular strain of bacteria. While probiotic foods are full of millions of bacteria, they come as a whole package. When we isolate that one strain, like they are in probiotics, it can wreak havoc in our body and upset the gut microbiome. If you have a specific health issue, and you’re working with a practitioner, then probiotics might be doing some good for you. Recent studies are showing that we’re not so sure of how they can impact our health and our gut microbiome. They can introduce too much of one strain and kill off another strain, or sometimes they just create an imbalance. If you’re dealing with a severe health issue and working with a practitioner, then by all means probiotics will help you through that process. But for us just to go: “Oh, we want to improve our gut health. Let’s go pop these pills.” In reality, food is where it’s at, and food is where we’re going to heal from. We heal by eating traditional foods, and I think it’s very hard to pop a pill and reap the same benefits.

Lindsey: 

Plus, there are so many different types of probiotics, and so many different strains. Unless you have a really good source about which strains are good for which conditions, then you are at risk of choosing the absolutely wrong probiotic. For example, if you’re someone who has histamine intolerance or histamine sensitivity, you would not want to take a probiotic that has high histamine producing strains. That would be an example of going wrong with probiotic pills.

Holly Howe: 

Exactly. I believe our taste buds have also missed the pleasure of consuming fermented foods, because these foods add a great umami punch. Adding fermented foods also nourishes our meal and makes it so much better, and it becomes more pleasurable. So yes, you have to work with somebody who knows what they’re doing to make sure you’re not upsetting things when using probiotics.

Lindsey: 

What is a good place to start with fermented foods?

Holly Howe: 

If you are not used to consuming fermented foods at all, it doesn’t hurt to go out and buy some instead of making them. I teach people how to ferment. I love fermentation. I love the process. Traditional healthy cultures all consumed some type of fermented foods, which I was drawn to. This was 20 years ago when there weren’t many different choices of fermented foods available. I started out by buying fermented foods, and while that’s a great place to start to get used to the flavor of it, eventually it gets too expensive. You start wanting to get your hands involved in the process in order to understand it. If you want to buy fermented foods, there’s a lot out there nowadays. There’s kefir, kombucha, sauerkraut, and pickles. You need to be sure when you purchase fermented foods that you’re buying live fermented foods. The benefits of the fermented foods come from the probiotics, but probiotics in fermented foods are killed off at high temperatures. So if you’re walking down an aisle at a grocery and pulling a can of sauerkraut off the shelf, that can is not going to give you the probiotic benefit. You’ll get the benefits of the fiber and the nutrients in there, but in order for that food to be shipped across the country, they heat, process, and can it. This process kills off all the benefits.

When you’re looking for fermented foods to buy, sauerkraut is a readily available option to start with. You want to look in the refrigerated section, and you want to look for something that says live, raw, and unpasteurized. Also be sure to look at the label and check the ingredients. You should just see the vegetables, the cabbage, and salt. That’s about it. When I first started making sauerkraut, I added dill to it. That was the only way I flavored it. Now I have all sorts of wonderful, flavorful ways to enjoy that sauerkraut. So, when buying sauerkraut, you may see other vegetables with the cabbage. Some brands will introduce other bacteria into the fermentation process. When I make it for myself though, I like to include only the vegetables, because they offer us so much good bacteria already. Basically, if you shop for fermented food, just look for salted cabbage and vegetables on the label and check that it’s raw and unpasteurized. That’s a great way to get used to the flavor of fermented food.

Lindsey: 

Are there particular brands you like of sauerkraut?

Holly Howe: 

I live in Canada, so I’m not familiar with a lot of American brands. I also haven’t bought much in the way of sauerkraut. As long as you’re looking, new companies come out all the time. You can even find it on Amazon. Don’t try to buy something that is difficult to access. Your local farmers market might even sell some sauerkraut, depending on what artisans are there.

Lindsey: 

We used to have an amazing stand near Takoma Park, Maryland, which is outside of DC. It sold sauerkraut and kimchi, and included different flavors and different colors of cabbage.

Holly Howe: 

When we start buying local like that, we’re supporting our economy. We’re supporting our farmers. We’re working together as a community, just like we need to work with the bacteria on our vegetables as a community in order to get those benefits.

Lindsey: 

You mentioned you do all sorts of fancy things with your sauerkraut. I make sauerkraut myself but I never do anything other than just basically salt. Tell me what kind of fancy changes I could do to my sauerkraut.

Holly Howe: 

One of my most favorite ones is what I call Hawaiian sauerkraut. That has pineapple in it. It has cilantro and lime juice and lime zest, and a few other spices. It’s a very summery, cooling sauerkraut. You can start pairing your sauerkraut with your meal, depending on what your meal is, just like you would a wine. My teaching recipe on my website uses grated carrots and chopped ginger, which is a nice balance. The color of the carrots adds some nice brightness. When fermenting cabbage by itself, if it is stored for too long, there’s not enough moisture in it. By adding radishes and carrots in, or grated beets, we’re able to add some moisture into it. To succeed with fermentation you need to have enough brine that everything can be packed down below it. Brine is where these bacteria live in an anaerobic environment without air. By adding a few extra vegetables to the cabbage, not only do we get this beautiful flavor, which appeals to many people’s palates, but then we have some extra moisture to help out. Another favorite of mine is grated beets with garlic and cumin seed. It’s just a beautiful color and the nutrients in the beets help with liver detoxification. You can put pretty much anything you want into a sauerkraut recipe.

Lindsey: 

I usually just make plain sauerkraut, but there often isn’t enough moisture. So I have gotten in the habit of just making a little bit extra brine with salt, just to cover the sauerkraut up. Once in my entire time making sauerkraut in the last five or seven years, my sauerkraut just smelled off. I had put a folded up piece of the exterior (of the cabbage) on top, folded up, which doesn’t need to be under the brine. I had been less careful about pushing it under the brine every day. Finally, I opened it up and it was moldy, but I thought I’ll just take that off and everything underneath should be fine. The smell was still off, though. I tried a bit, and thought, “Oh no, that’s not right.”  I just spit it out, washed my mouth out, and threw it all away.

Holly Howe: 

That can happen once in a while. We don’t always know why. I had one batch of sauerkraut that I tossed. It was because I made it from cabbage that had been sitting in my garage for months. I kept saying that I was going to make it tomorrow. Being the thrifty person that I am, I finally got started. These cabbage heads had turned from a dark green to a blonde white. They had no weight to them. There were brown bits that I had to cut off. Don’t ask me why kept going, but I did. I made sauerkraut. We were just raised not to waste food. I made a five liter batch of it and it fermented fine. It looked okay, and I packed it into jars, then put the jars in my refrigerator. I pulled a jar out later to take to a gathering, but when I opened it up, there was a thick layer of pinkish-brown slimy mold on top. There was not enough bacteria in that head of cabbage because it had been in the garage for at least two months. The bacteria couldn’t do the work because there weren’t enough of them. I knew right away that it needed to be tossed. We have to use the best ingredients possible. We’re setting up a good home for the bacteria. They like a certain amount of salt. They like a certain temperature. They’re picky like the rest of us. If we set up the right home for them, it’s failsafe. It’s very hard to ruin a batch. Like you said, intuitively, you knew that batch was wrong. Fermentation is very safe. There’s never been a recorded case of illness for eating fermented vegetables. It’s a very safe process.

Lindsey: 

Just make sure it stays under that brine. This last time every day I just made sure I pushed everything under the brine so it all got wet again. Sometimes the veggies do push up out of it. Do you have a device that keeps things under the brine when you ferment?

Holly Howe: 

20 years ago, when I first started fermenting, Amazon wasn’t around. The way that we fermented was in large crocks. Today, everybody’s fermenting in jars, which is a great way to learn. It’s also a great way to do all your fermentation. They have come up with neat little devices to create an air seal, and also to hold things under the brine. My favorite device is called a fermentation spring*. I received one in the mail a few years ago from a company called Trellis & Co. A spring engineer developed the technology but it’s a wound spring, a piece of metal in a spiral, that you put into the top of your jar. The lid on your jar forces the spring down, and the spring puts pressure on your packed jar of cabbage. This holds everything under the brine splendidly.

Most of the original fermentation weights for jars were glass disks, because they copied what people used to do in a large crock. Our great-great grandparents, when they fermented sauerkraut in the basement, would pack the vegetables into a large crock and put a large plate on top. Then, on top of the plate, they would put a heavy can, or some type of large weight that pushed down hard on that packed cabbage. They could put a lot of weight inside a large crock. In a little jar, a little glass weight just does not push down hard enough during the fermentation process when all these gases are being created. Those gases push up by creating air pockets which push everything out of the brine. What you’re doing everyday by pushing into the brine works great, or by using my favorite device, a fermentation spring.

Lindsey: 

I forgot one other piece to my fermentation mishap. I usually take a clean dish towel and lay it over my jars just to keep sunlight out. That time I took a dirty dish towel to cover the jar that we’d been using to dry our hands with. There was probably a good bit of random bacteria on it.

Holly Howe: 

It’s a very forgiving process. Even that dirty towel and some bacteria that may be dropped into the brine, those bacteria are creating a safe environment in the jar for the vegetables. They get rid of the chemicals sprayed on our vegetables during the fermentation process. It’s just amazing what they’re able to do. Who knows what went wrong; you never know.

Lindsey: 

I have a little sauerkraut with my egg at breakfast and maybe a coconut yogurt a few days a week. How could I incorporate more fermented foods into my diet?

Holly Howe: 

Number one, just realize that you don’t need to eat a lot of the fermented foods. Think of it as a condiment. To me, the easiest way to add fermented foods to your diet is to just add them to a meal like you do with your eggs. When I’m eating dinner, I’ll just put a dollop on the side or when I make a salad at lunch, I’ll sprinkle some of that onto my salad. The easiest way to incorporate sauerkraut is to add it to your plate, but some people don’t like the taste of it. They may not be used to the sour taste. If you did not grow up with fermented foods, the sourness of them can be an uncomfortable flavor to get used to.

You can add it to a salad, so if you’re making a green salad you can add some shredded cabbage to it. You’re not even going to notice the sour flavor. In fact, it’s going to add to the salad; it will taste so much better. It’s just like adding vinegar to your salad. People have been known to take the brine and put it into a smoothie. That will help you get the beneficial bacteria and the probiotics into children who do not want to eat the fermented food. Just add the brine or even the sauerkraut into the blender, blend it up, and it’s a hidden way to sneak it in. You could also try layering it into a sandwich or onto a hamburger. Some people make Buddha bowls with sauerkraut. It’s just one more vegetable to add in.

Fermented carrot sticks are a great way to get children to start eating fermented foods. You can dip them into hummus or ranch dressing or a different dip. There are many ways to mask the flavor of it and then other ways to just let it sit there and be prominent on your plate. In my opinion, sauerkraut tends to add to your meal. Meals taste so much better with fermented foods. You’ll get to a point where every time you start to eat your dinner, you’ll think something’s missing. You’ll go grab a jar of sauerkraut or pickles or fermented carrot sticks. All of a sudden your taste buds are turned on and the food tastes so much better. That’s because of the umami taste in fermented foods, which is a pleasant savory taste.  Chefs know the secret of adding umami-rich ingredients to meals because it brings out all the flavors.

Lindsey: 

As I mentioned, I eat it with my breakfast. I’ll have a bite of egg with some chipotle hollandaise sauce and a little bit of sautéed spinach and then a little bite of sauerkraut. The sauerkraut adds in the salt component.

Holly Howe: 

Yeah, exactly. We have to be careful too. If you’re brand new to fermented foods, sometimes your body likes it so much. It craves it. You start eating that jar of sauerkraut, and you almost want to go to the bottom of it in one day. It’s just like with those probiotic supplements, you don’t want to introduce too much bacteria all at once. You have to be careful with fermented foods not to add too much all at once. You should start very slow. If you have compromised gut health, even just taking a sip of the brine for a few days, and testing how your body reacts to it. If after a bit, you body is doing okay, then maybe sip a little bit more once or twice a day. Work your way up gradually over like even a month. Take it slowly because it’s much easier to back off than it is to undo damage of throwing too much bacteria into your gut too quickly. Work your way up to one or two forkfuls of sauerkraut once or twice a day, and that is plenty to help you with your gut health. Then think about adding other fermented foods to your diet. Kombucha is real popular. Milk kefir is another great one to add to your diet. Also, try fermented pickles, or various fermented vegetables. You’ll get a variety of bacteria introduced into your gut microbiome.

Lindsey: 

Do you do your own yogurt or kefir?

Holly Howe: 

I do my own milk kefir, on and off. Right now, I’ve switched over to making a special yogurt. That being said, I love milk kefir. It is great for people with compromised gut health, who might be intolerant to dairy. The fermentation process breaks down the lactose and makes it much more digestible. There are more strains of beneficial bacteria in milk kefir than there are in yogurt. It’s a very wonderful food to add into your diet when you’re trying to take care of a lot of gut issues. Milk kefir is made ideally with raw milk, but you can make with any type of milk. The next step is adding what they call milk kefir grains, which look like little pieces of cauliflower. They’re a symbiotic collection of bacteria and yeast. You’re putting that into your jar of milk, and you’re letting it sit on your counter anywhere from 12 to 36 hours. It will thicken and sour and then you drink the milk kefir. It’s a very easy fermentation process. It’s easy to find milk kefir grains on many different Facebook groups. That’s a great way to take care of your gut health.

Lindsey: 

Are you not heating the milk at all in the way you do when you make yogurt?

Holly Howe: 

No, you don’t heat the milk at all. That’s why it’s so nice, because you have nothing to do other than removing the grains after the fermentation process. I was even doing this with a bare hand because the grains were large enough. I’d just reach into my jar when it was done fermenting, pull the grains out of the jar, and put them into the next jar. If you want to be careful, you should strain them through a strainer. I find the process so simple. No heating at all. You can just keep reusing the grains over and over. They grow and grow. You might even have to donate some to a friend because the grains have gotten too big. When there’s more grains, the fermentation process happens more quickly. Milk kefir is just a wonderful drink. Some people do make it with coconut milk. If you are sensitive to dairy, it’s worth a try, because many people find they can digest it without any issue at all. It has so many good healing properties.

Lindsey: 

I’ve made yogurt; I used to make a wonderful lemon yogurt, which was something I tried for the first time when I was studying abroad in France. I would also add rosewater sometimes. There were seven jars that fit into the yogurt maker and I would add a little bit of whatever flavoring, so I could have multiple flavors in one batch. That was when I was eating dairy. I’m very picky about coconut yogurt. There’s literally only one brand I like, which is called Cocojune*. That’s the only one I eat. I haven’t tried ever to make kefir myself with non-dairy milk.

Holly Howe: 

Right. I haven’t played with non-dairy milks, because I personally just want the nutrition out of the dairy, and I’m good with dairy. One thing I’ve gotten on to recently is Dr. William Davis, who wrote the “Wheat Belly*” book. He’s been experimenting around making yogurts with specific strains that he calls keystone species. These are species of bacteria that we should all have in our diet. He’s finding that people are lacking in them. This book called “Super Gut*” teaches you how to make yogurt from these different strains of bacteria. The one I’m making right now is called L. reuteri. You use capsules that have the L. reuteri species strain in them, and you make it with pasteurized milk, not with raw milk. The idea is that you only want to introduce the strain that he’s trying to reinnoculate into your gut microbiome. You don’t want it to compete with the other strains that could be found in the milk. You make this yogurt at a specific temperature – 100 degrees – and you do it for 36 hours. It has tremendous gut healing properties, and it’s also skin smoothing, and makes you sleep better. It becomes a miracle yogurt when you work with a specific strain that makes all sorts of wonderful things happen.

Lindsey: 

My understanding is that a traditional yogurt-maker is at a higher temperature than what he uses. You have to use something special, like an Instapot. I understand that the newer ones will keep things at a particular temperature like 100 degrees.

Holly Howe: 

Exactly, you have to be able to control the temperature. With the newer instant pots, you can easily control the temperature. There are also specific yogurt-makers that allow you to have control over the temperature. You can also use a sous vide cooker. I make my yogurt with a sous vide cooker and a big pot of water with three or four jars of yogurt in there.

Lindsey: 

So like you put a wand in and the sous vide cooker keeps it at a certain temperature?

Holly Howe: 

Yes. That works well, because I already have lots of jars in my house. I don’t really use drinking glasses. Instead we drink everything out of various canning jars, so we have these jars in all sizes. I just didn’t want to introduce a new set of jars into the house with the yogurt makers that have those nice cute little jars. I found that by using the sous vide wand in a spaghetti pot of water, I could put three jars in the pot and make a two to three liter batch of yogurt all at once. That tends to work well in our family.

Lindsey: 

Has it been giving you those amazing benefits?

Holly Howe: 

I’m noticing a great difference in sleep, and I’m also noticing that my dreams are much more vivid. I didn’t used to remember dreams at all, and now I’m remembering my dreams. I ran into a girl in the market the other day who was getting ready to make another batch of her yogurt. She said, “Look at me! I’m seventy, and I have no wrinkles.” It’s just wonderful.

Lindsey: 

That’s it. I’m making it–you’ve convinced me. Anything for vanity! Are there ferments that you particularly like for people with gut health issues?

Holly Howe: 

Definitely make the milk kefir. I’d also recommend starting with what I would call “gut shots” or the juice from the sauerkraut. You, in essence, make a watery batch of sauerkraut and you drink just the brine from it. A lot of times people with gut issues cannot take the fiber from the sauerkraut, so I think gut shots are a wonderful way to gently introduce the beneficial bacteria without actually consuming the fermented food. Bone broth would be another option that is so healthy and healing for people with gut issues.

Lindsey: 

I love my bone broth. During the winter, I try and have that every morning with some lemon and salt in it.

Holly Howe: 

Yeah, exactly, it’s so nourishing and so healing. There are just so many things we can do to take care of our health through foods that for traditional cultures, it was their mainstay diet. People should really stay away from processed foods and go back to these original foods. It can be so healing for the gut.

Lindsey: 

I think of fermentation as sort of an accidental thing. Back then, they probably needed to preserve the food, so it fermented and then that’s how it stayed good.

Holly Howe: 

Exactly. Fermentation is not just a recipe you want to try for the day, where you open up your cookbook, as if you want to make a batch of chocolate chip cookies, and you run to the store and buy everything. Fermentation is actually a way to preserve foods. If we’re going to have success with fermentation, we need to preserve what is locally available and in season. If it’s December and I want to make pickles, just like I’d want to make chocolate chip cookies in December, I’m going to be fighting with the ingrediants. I’m not going to have much success because the cucumbers sold in December were either grown in a hot house, or they were shipped from halfway around the world, or they’ve been sitting on the shelf for weeks. We have to reflect on what is the number one worker bee that makes fermentation happen: it’s the bacteria. The minute that we pick a vegetable that we want to ferment, it’s trying to decay. The bacteria that break it down are fighting with the bacteria that are going to transform it into gold for us. We really have to look at fermentation as a way to preserve foods, and we should be preserving our local foods. When we work with something local, that was recently picked, it’s very hard to mess it up, because it’s just teeming with that beneficial bacteria.

Lindsey: 

What are some of the more advanced ferments that people might consider making if they’ve already done the basics, like sauerkraut or yogurt?

Holly Howe: 

Well, like I mentioned before, fermenting cucumbers into pickles is one of the more advanced ones in my opinion. It’s just a little more finicky. If you’re starting with fresh-picked cucumbers, it’s hard not to mess it up. Sometimes they come out too soft because you haven’t added enough tannin-rich vegetables in there. You have to cut off the blossom so the veggies don’t soften during the fermentation process. Also, people pick fresh cucumbers in the middle of summer, which means we’re fermenting in the heat. Ideally, fermenting works better at cooler temperatures, which is difficult when your house is 80 degrees. Often, if you want to make your fresh, local cucumber pickles, you’re fighting the heat. The bacteria that help make fermentation happen don’t like the heat. There’s a lot of factors at play when you’re trying to make your cucumber pickles. I ferment them in ice chests where I’ve put a frozen jug of water so I can drop the temperature down. Ideally, you should aim for about 65 to 70 degrees Fahrenheit for your fermentation temperature. When the temperature gets above that, you’re fighting all these other things going on, and your chances for success are greatly diminished. To me, that is a more challenging one.

Kimchi is beautiful to make, but there are just more steps involved. If you’re making it in the traditional format, you’re soaking the napa cabbage in the salt and water first, and then you have to make the paste that the leaves get layered into. That one’s a little bit more complex, but you can get the same flavors by making a kimchi-style sauerkraut, which I have a recipe for on my website. You slice the cabbage up finely and then add green onions and carrots and Korean red pepper and fish sauce to get the same flavors, but in a much more simple process. It’s a learning process, and once you learn the fermentation process, then it becomes intuitive and second nature. You start going to the market and you see everything down there and you can’t stop thinking: “What can I make with that? What can I make with that?”

Lindsey: 

My husband grew up near a Korean family in Florida, and he said that they would bury the kimchi in their yard, then dig it out when it was done fermenting.

Holly Howe: 

Right. They were burying it in their yard to have that nice cool temperature, that stable temperature. Your best flavors happen when you have a nice stable temperature during the fermentation process.

Lindsey: 

Tell me about your fermentation courses and your book.

Holly Howe: 

On my website I give people three entry points. I have a great teaching recipe on there. If you want to just jump in and learn how to make sauerkraut, it takes you through step by step. And then in my book called “Fermentation Made Easy! Mouthwatering Sauerkraut,” the book is available on Amazon as a print book or on the Kindle, or on my website as a PDF, it includes 20+ recipes with all my beautiful combinations of flavor. I have The Firecracker Sauerkraut which has sliced jalapenos, oregano and red onion in it. There’s the beet sauerkraut in there. There’s a kimchi sauerkraut in there. I teach the process step by step and you get the recommended tools for how to make various flavors of sauerkraut. I have a course on how to make sauerkraut, and then an online course on how to make fermented vegetable pickles.

Lindsey: 

Where do they find all those things?

Holly Howe: 

At makesauerkraut.com.

Lindsey: 

Any final thoughts about fermentation for us before we head out?

Holly Howe: 

Just jump in and try it! It’s an amazing process. I love it because it introduces people to a whole new community: the microbial community. When I first made sauerkraut, I was following a recipe just like it was a chocolate chip cookie recipe. I did not realize that there was bacteria in there that were making all this magic happen. Once you realize that, it’s just a whole new world, and you start wanting to take care of the bacteria and make sure that you’ve fed them properly and set up their home properly. Before you know it, you’re trying to get the best cabbage possible, so you’re looking for a local community farmers’ market where you can buy great cabbage from your farmer, if you’re not growing it in your backyard. All of a sudden, you’ll sit down at night for a meal and you’ll realize how much of your food came from your local community.

Lindsey: 

It is also so much less expensive to make your own ferments. I think you could buy fancy sauerkraut for 10 dollars a jar, and you can make three jars of it from one head of cabbage.

Holly Howe: 

Right? It’s more like $20 a jar.

Lindsey: 

Oh yeah and it’s like $2.50 for a head of cabbage.

Holly Howe: 

We need those skills of fermentation. It’s a very empowering process, when you can slice up this cabbage, and sprinkle some salt on it and pack it into a jar. Then you watch the bubbles happening, and over time you watch the colors change, and the smells change. Eventually, you open up the jar and, all of a sudden, you have something that you made yourself, something that’s going to take care of your gut health. It’s much simpler than a new diet or a new thing you have to do. Rather you just open up that jar and put a fork of the sauerkraut onto your plate, and the meal tastes better, you sleep better, and your gut is healthier. In that way, it’s such a wonderful empowering process. It’s just great to learn a new skill and add it to your repertoire.

Lindsey: 

Well, thank you so much for coming on and sharing with us about fermentation. You’re actually the first person I’ve had on the podcast who’s talked about this topic. Take care and thank you so much.


If you’re struggling with  bloating, constipation, diarrhea, soft stool, acid reflux, IBS, IBD or any type of chronic disease, etc. and want to get to the bottom of it, that’s what I help my clients with. You’re welcome to set up a free, 30-minute breakthrough session with me (Lindsey). We’ll talk about what you’ve been going through and I’ll tell you about my 3- and 5- appointment health coaching programs in which I recommend lab tests, educate you on what the results mean and the protocols used by doctors to fix the problems revealed. Or if you’re ready to jump in right away or can just afford one appointment at a time, you can set up an 1-hour consultation with me. 

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Unraveling the Allergy-Gut Connection: A Journey to Histamine Balance

As featured on Feedspot as #18 in gut health blogs!

Adapted from episode 105 of The Perfect Stool podcast hosted by Lindsey Parsons, EdD, Gut Health Coach, and edited for readability.

What are allergies, and what causes allergic reactions in the body?

Allergies are immune system reactions to substances that are typically harmless to most people but trigger an exaggerated response in those who are allergic. The immune system plays a crucial role in protecting the body from harmful invaders, such as viruses and bacteria. However, in the case of allergies, it can mistakenly identify allergens, like pollen, dust mites, pet dander or certain foods, as threats. When someone with allergies encounters these allergens, their immune system releases chemicals like histamines and cytokines from their mast cells, which are cells found in the skin and mucous-lined surfaces of the body, including the digestive tract, which are intended to ward off the perceived threat. These chemicals cause common allergy symptoms such as sneezing, itching, swelling, and congestion. Essentially, allergies are a result of the immune system’s overzealous response to substances it incorrectly perceives as dangerous. 

I’m sure you’re familiar with over-the-counter cures for allergies: antihistamines like Claritin, Zyrtec and Benadryl, which help quell the histamine response. These antihistamines are like putting a band-aid on the issue by blocking histamine receptors, but they don’t actually do anything about the histamine levels themselves. So, they’re great for comfort, but they’re not a long-term fix, and have unwanted side effects like drowsiness and lower stomach acid levels, which will impact your protein digestion and can lead to a higher stomach and intestinal pH, which as I’ll explain later, is counterproductive. 

So let’s dig a bit more into histamine. First of all, it’s not just the chemical our bodies produce when our immune system goes into battle mode, but it’s also involved in a lot of other biochemical processes, including regulating our digestion, helping us to build stomach acid, and serving as a neurotransmitter that regulates other neurotransmitters like serotonin. Histamine is also involved in helping wake us up as part of our sleep cycle. It’s also involved in our circulatory system, menstrual cycle and in regulating inflammation (meaning not just creating inflammation but also regulating it). So it’s really an incredibly important chemical that our body produces, and we can’t just try to block all of it because of that. 

In a typical scenario, our body both produces and breaks down histamine. This is crucial to maintain balance. However, sometimes this balance can go awry. This breakdown process relies on two major enzymes: diamine oxidase (DAO) and Histamine N-methyltransferase (HNMT). When we lack these enzymes, histamine accumulates, and we end up with more histamine than our body can handle. This excess histamine can lead to a range of problems.

This may look like skin rashes, eczema, hives, sensitivity to cold or heat, pounding headaches, fatigue, brain fog, constant nasal drip, asthma, heightened anxiety, disrupted sleep patterns, digestive issues like heartburn, bloating, or diarrhea and food intolerances. Essentially, when there’s an abundance of histamine circulating in our body, it binds to histamine receptors all around our body, causing disturbances and intensifying these symptoms everywhere.

There are two terms that describe this allergic situation. One is histamine dysregulation, where we produce too much histamine, and suffer the consequences of excess histamine wreaking havoc in our system.

The other term is histamine intolerance. This latter term relates to the body’s ability to break down histamine from ingested foods. And I imagine many of you may not be aware that histamine is also present in many of the foods we eat. Histamines are found particularly in aged or fermented foods like sauerkraut, wine, or aged meats or cheeses, and foods that have gone bad or have been stored for a long time. And even some seemingly innocent foods like avocado, spinach or tomatoes have natural levels of histamine. Then there are foods that cause the release of histamine, like citrus, bananas, dairy products, chocolate, pineapple, nuts, strawberries, food additives, shellfish, and artificial dyes and preservatives. 

When you consume foods that naturally contain histamine or histamine-releasing foods, your gut usually deploys the enzyme DAO to break down the histamine. However, in histamine intolerance, there’s often a deficiency of DAO, or it doesn’t function optimally, resulting in an inability to effectively break down histamine from these foods.

As a result, histamine from the ingested foods gets absorbed into the bloodstream, leading to increased systemic histamine levels. This can cause symptoms like headaches, hives, digestive problems, and more, specifically triggered by the histamine-containing foods you eat.

In essence, the main distinction lies in the source of the excess histamine. Histamine dysregulation originates from the body’s overproduction of histamine, while histamine intolerance is primarily linked to the inability to process histamine from foods due to DAO deficiencies or dysfunction. Both can lead to a variety of symptoms, but they have different underlying mechanisms.

Now what you may not realize is the way that SIBO, or small intestine bacterial overgrowth, can lead to histamine-related issues. First, when we have an over-abundance of bacteria in our digestive tract, it tends to generate inflammation. Certain bacteria, the gram-negative ones, produce substances known as lipopolysaccharides, which can trigger the mast cells to release histamine within the digestive system. So, when there’s substantial inflammation due to bacterial overgrowth, it results in increased utilization of DAO. As a result, we might deplete our DAO reserves, making it insufficient to handle the histamine from our diet. That’s one way bacterial overgrowth can contribute.

Secondly, recent research points to certain types of bacteria commonly associated with SIBO being histamine producers. In a study in which stool was examined to find the connection between urinary histamines and bacteria in IBS patients, it was found first that IBS patients with high urine histamine had a gut microbiome that produced significantly more histamine, and second, that Klebsiella aerogenes was the primary histamine producer, producing 100 times more histamine than other bacteria. Other previous research has also suggested Morganella morganii as another potential high gut histamine producer. Klebsiella is known as one of the primary overgrown bacteria in SIBO, which is why many SIBO sufferers also have histamine intolerance, because an overgrowth of these histamine-producing bacteria in our gut depletes our DAO reserves and interferes with our histamine tolerance. So, it’s a double whammy effect from both inflammation from gram negative Klebsiella and excess histamine-produced by bacteria in the context of bacterial overgrowth.

So some people dealing with terrible allergies are not just getting them from environmental triggers, but may also be experiencing histamine intolerance related to diet and not realize it. 

How can gut bacteria help reduce histamine?

In addition to SIBO in particular, research has revealed a compelling link between gut health and allergies, with multiple studies showing that individuals with allergies often exhibit alterations in their gut microbiome composition, characterized by a reduced diversity of beneficial bacteria. This imbalance, referred to as dysbiosis, can lead to a weakened gut barrier, allowing allergens and toxins to pass through more easily.

Furthermore, research has suggested that certain gut bacteria, such as specific strains of Bifidobacterium and Lactobacillus, may play a protective role against allergies by regulating the immune system and promoting tolerance to allergens. Conversely, disruptions in the gut microbiome’s balance have been associated with an increased risk of developing allergies, including food allergies, hay fever, and asthma. 

Now let’s talk about how to modulate the gut in order to reduce histamines. As noted above, an abundance of Klebsiella aerogenes, which produces histamines, can be part of the problem. Researchers discovered that K. aerogenes is most prolific in producing histamine when the pH of the gut is around 7.0. But, histamine production nearly ceases when the pH drops below 6.0 or rises above 8.0. This finding is significant because the colon’s pH typically ranges from 5.5 to 7.5, with lower pH values associated with better colon health. So modifying the colon’s pH to increase its acidity (meaning lowering the pH) could be a strategy to reduce histamine production by K. aerogenes. I should thank Lucy Mailing for these insights into histamine intolerance and colon pH and many of the suggested interventions before I go on. 

So how do we do lower colon pH? Specific bacterial strains like Bifidobacteria and lactobacilli increase lactic acid levels, playing a role in colon pH. Researchers have observed that in “humanized” mice with a microbiota from IBS patients displaying high urine histamine levels, lactic acid levels were notably lower. Not surprisingly, they also found reduced levels of lactic-acid-producing bacteria, including lactobacilli. Further investigation revealed that certain lactobacilli could modulate histamine production by K. aerogenes, likely through the production of lactic acid. This suggests that specific lactobacilli strains may contribute to regulating histamine production by K. aerogenes.

While much of the discussion has centered on the colon, it’s essential to consider the presence of Klebsiella species in the small intestine. Studies have indicated that Klebsiella species may be more prevalent in the duodenum, the upper portion of the small intestine, in individuals with gastrointestinal symptoms. This presence in the small intestine can potentially disrupt the overall microbial community. Furthermore, it’s suggested that some Klebsiella species found in the gut may originate from the oral cavity, indicating that saliva could act as a reservoir for transmitting Klebsiella to the gut, where they may flourish if the gut environment is conducive. In portions of the small intestine with lower acidity, such as the ileum, which can have pH levels as high as 7.4-7.8, histamine production by K. aerogenes may be supported. In summary, K. aerogenes produces histamine, and its production is influenced by pH levels, while lactic acid and specific lactobacilli and bifidobacteria strains can impact this process. Additionally, Klebsiella’s presence in the small intestine may also contribute to histamine production, particularly in less acidic regions.

What can I do with my gut to impact my allergies?

If your allergy symptoms are worse after eating certain foods, or you have lots of gut symptoms in addition to allergic symptoms or at the same time as them, you may have a histamine intolerance problem. So how can you bring down your gut pH and try to reduce your populations of inflammatory bacteria? Here are some potential interventions. The trick is that you may not be able to tolerate these interventions while populations of Klebsiella or other histamine producing bacteria are high. So it may be necessary to use antimicrobial herbs first to bring down the bacteria. But after that, you can start interventions for changing the environment in your gut and bringing down your gut pH.  

One first easy step is by eating lots of lacto-fermented foods that have high amounts of lactobacilli, which will produce lactic acid and reduce the pH in your gut. And my next episode will be about fermenting foods so stay tuned for that. Second you can take probiotics with lactobacilli. One strain in particular, Lactobacillus plantarum 299v, has been shown in clinical trials for IBS to be better tolerated by histamine-sensitive individuals. You can find it in the Jarrow Formulas, Ideal Bowel Support probiotic*, and Metagenics UltraFlora® Intensive Care* or Hyperbiotics’ PRO-IBS Support* all of which are available in my Fullscript Dispensary.

And there are also a number of probiotics that are designed for breaking down histamine, and have no histamine producing strains, which many do. These include Seeking Health’s ProBiota HistaminX* and Vitanica’s Flora Symmetry*: 

Third, you can include vinegar with or before your meals, which has been shown in animal models to reduce colonic pH. 

Other potentially beneficial interventions for people with histamine intolerance include butyrate or its preferred supplement form, tributyrin, which may help to promote colon acidity and suppress mast cell activation. And of course I have to plug my own supplement Tributyrin-Max here. But keep in mind that tributyrin will slow colon motility so if you’re constipated, I’d pick a lower dose butyrate supplement than mine and only use one every few days. But if your stool is loose, a higher dose one like Tributyrin-Max is a good choice. I’d start with 1 with a meal and titrate up to as many as 1-2 per meal until your stool is solid with a clean wipe, decreasing it when and if you get constipated. 

If you have any signs or possible contributing factors to low stomach acid, like low pancreatic enzymes, H pylori overgrowth, low chloride levels on a blood test, specifically under 100 mmol/L, abnormally high or low serum protein and serum globulin levels, especially in the presence of relatively normal liver enzymes, which are the ALT and AST, low phosphorous levels, high BUN levels of 20 mg/dL or more or B12 or iron deficiencies or acid reflux, supplementation with Betaine HCl, which is just supplementary stomach acid, will reduce the pH of the stomach and small intestine. 

And then doing things to reduce colon transit time and increase colon motility, especially if you’re constipated will also help with a lower colon pH. My go to’s for that are vitamin C and magnesium citrate. For vitamin C, I usually recommend the Perque C Guard powder, ¼ tsp. three times a day, and increase from there as needed. And then the Natural Vitality Calm Magnesium*, which comes in plain or a variety of flavors, which is magnesium carbonate and turns into citrate when you mix it in water. That helps with motility. You can find all the flavors and the plain in my Fullscript dispensary at a discount.

I recommend starting with ½ tsp. before bed and increasing by ½ a tsp. every 2 days until you hit 2 tsp. or more as needed to get the colon moving. If this isn’t enough to get things moving, you may have a bad case of IMO or intestinal methogen overgrowth and may need some antimicrobial interventions too. 

Then of course there’s eating a low histamine diet, following for example Dr. Jocker’s Low Histamine Food Plan, but ideally that’s a temporary fix until you get the gut issues under control. 

And then finally, time restricted eating will help, meaning only eating when it’s light out, because Klebsiella aerogenes proliferates more rapidly in the presence of melatonin, which comes out at night. And I actually have a former client whose symptoms pointed very strongly towards histamine intolerance who had terrible night time itching, and she reached out to me to tell me that when she implemented a 17-hour nightly fast, stopping eating after 4 or 5 p.m., her itching went away. 

Then of course there are other supplements that help stabilize or modulate mast cells and may decrease symptoms. Quercetin (found in Megagenetics Quercetin 500*) is one of the best known. Taking 500 mg. a half hour before you eat may be helpful if your symptoms point to histamine intolerance. 

Or taking 1 500 mg. capsule a day on an ongoing basis if your allergies do not seem food-related. 

Curcumin and silymarin are also mast cell stabilizers and curcumin is a great general anti-inflammatory. You can find them in Biomatrix’s Support Mucosa* (quercetin, turmeric root extract and silymarin), Progressive Professional’s Milk Thistle Complex* (curcumin and silymarin) and NFH’s Liver SAP*.

These types of products with silymarin tend to be geared towards liver support, so if you are concerned you have liver issues, like fatty liver, have high fasting glucose or hemoglobin A1C or skin issues, or drink a lot or alcohol, then then these types of supplements might do good double duty in helping support your liver. 

And then there are actual DAO supplements, and although I’ve heard mixed results about their efficacy from other practitioners, I do have clients who swear by them. Two are Designs for Health’s HistaGest DAO*, and Seeking Health’s Histamine Digest*.

What lifestyle interventions can I do to maintain a healthy gut microbiome and decrease allergies?

Now beyond the advice for people with gut-related histamine issues, I want to highlight the lifestyle interventions that will help people with allergies that do not seem to be related to the gut, but keeping in mind that with 70% of our immune system found in our gut, decreasing systemic inflammation via the gut is still relevant. 

First, try to increase your dietary diversity by consuming a diverse range of fiber-rich foods such as fruits, vegetables, whole grains, and legumes, and I’ll especially highlight the importance of legumes, meaning beans, lentils, split peas, hummus, etc. in providing adequate dietary fiber and supporting a diverse microbiome of beneficial gut bacteria. I recommend getting ¼ to ½ cup of these high fiber foods a day. And on top of that, I’d particularly recommend the following foods for their immune balancing and histamine managing properties: parsley, coriander, raw red onion, broccoli, nettle* and tulsi teas* and fresh ginger and turmeric. These natural options can help balance your immune response and manage histamine.

Second, incorporate probiotic-rich foods like yogurt, kefir, sauerkraut, and kimchi into your diet. These foods contain live probiotic cultures that can support a balanced microbiome.

Third, include healthy prebiotics in your diet, from foods like garlic, onions, leeks and asparagus, which also serve as nourishment for beneficial gut bacteria.

Four, limit processed foods and sugary foods, which often contain additives and preservatives that can negatively affect gut health and which will feed pathogenic organisms in the gut. 

Fifth, make sure you stay hydrated. This is important to keep your system moving and not have stagnation and constipation, not to mention supporting overall digestion and ensuring a suitable environment for gut bacteria to thrive. Half of your body weight in ounces if you measure your weight in pounds is recommended as a minimum. 

Sixth, try to manage your stress. I’ve seen so many clients whose health declined in response to a major stressful period in their life. You can do this by first trying to change the way that you perceive stress. Sometimes work can be fast-paced and challenging and if you perceive it that way, then your body will not necessarily ramp up the cortisol commensurate with a stress response. But if you perceive it as stressful and negative, it will. Or if you set up unreasonable expectations of the people around you, and I’m speaking from experience here, thinking things like “my children should never say ‘no’ to me or talk back to me”, then you will no doubt have a higher stress response than if you have more reasonable expectations like “sometimes kids disobey their parents and my job is to guide them gently”. And then pick out a stress-reduction technique you like, such as meditation, yoga, prayer, breathwork or Epsom salt baths, which have the added benefit of giving you magnesium. Try to get in at least 10-15 minutes of a relaxation technique a day. And finally, if you’re in a toxic relationship or have toxic people in your life, start the process of considering whether and how to remove yourself from toxic people, enlisting the help of a therapist or friends as necessary. 

Seventh, avoid the overuse of antibiotics, especially for upper respiratory infections that are usually viral in nature. If your doctor has given you antibiotics in the past, you’re more likely to request and expect them, but if anything, the best stance is challenging a doctor who wants to prescribe you antibiotics unless it’s confirmed that you have a bacterial infection, and then making sure you get the most narrow spectrum antibiotic you can, and for the shortest duration recommended. 

Eight, engage in regular exercise, which has been linked to a more diverse and balanced gut microbiome.

And last, prioritize getting adequate (meaning 7-9 hours) and quality sleep, which supports immune function and contributes to overall well-being.

Are there supplements that will help with my allergies? 

Certain supplements may support gut health, which, in turn, can have a positive impact on allergies. Here are some supplements that have been associated with potential benefits for allergies through their influence on gut health:

I mentioned probiotics earlier for people with histamine intolerance, but let me add that if you have seasonal type allergies, you may want to look at a spore-based probiotic. One of the most researched ones is called Enterogermina*, which comes out of Italy but is very reasonably priced for a 20-vial course on Amazon. In studies, it was shown to reduce nasal congestion and the need for antihistamines. Spore-based probiotics have also been shown to reduce post-prandial, meaning after a meal, lipopolysaccride levels, which is one cause of inflammation.

Research also suggests that the most common probiotic strains, Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium, may reduce allergy symptoms by modulating the immune response. A very researched combo probiotic is Seed Synbiotic*, which has some strains in it that were particularly researched for helping with allergies. 

If you can’t get enough prebiotic fiber in your diet from fruits and vegetables, ideally from 5 servings a day, you may want to try a prebiotic supplement to provide the fiber and nutrients that beneficial gut bacteria need to thrive. One good one is Pure Encapsulations’ Poly-prebiotic powder*: 

Then if you’re not eating two servings of fatty fish like salmon, sardines or anchovies a week, then I’d recommend an Omega-3 fatty acid supplement. Either fish oil or algae oil if you are vegan, have anti-inflammatory properties, may help reduce allergic inflammation and support overall gut and immune system health. My favorites are Nordic Naturals’ ProOmega 2000* which I like because you get 1000 mg of EPA and DHA in one, which is a sufficient dose for most people. If you have high cholesterol issues too, you may want to take two of those. And of course pick grassfed or pasture raised eggs, beef, lamb and dairy, if you eat it, for the higher Omega 3 content. 

Or if you’re a vegan or vegetarian, you can use one like Nordic Naturals Algae Omega*, but you may need to take more of them to get to 1000 mg of EPA and DHA and may need even more than that because you aren’t getting it from your diet. 

And then one of the most important substances for immune health is vitamin D. Adequate vitamin D levels are important for a balanced immune response and may help reduce the risk of allergies. I have yet to see a single client who achieved optimal vitamin D status without supplementing. I suggest you get your vitamin D tested and shoot for an optimal range of 60-80 ng/mL. If you aren’t there, most people I find need 3000-5000 IU a day to get there and stay there, which I always recommend to combine with vitamin K2, preferably in the mk4 form. I like the drops because you can adjust your dose as you test and retest. I only know of one D3/K2 drop with K2 in the mk4 form, which is the Adapt Naturals one*.

Then you may have specific other vitamin and mineral deficiencies that are necessary for creating the DAO enzyme. The most common ones are vitamin B6, best gotten in a complete methylated B complex, and one good one is from Priority One* that’s got a reasonable amount of all the B vitamins in it, although if you’ve had any identified B vitamin deficiencies or have issues like anxiety or depression, you may want to select a B complex with higher levels of related B vitamins. I should also note that I don’t think I’ve ever seen a test from a client who had sufficient levels of all the B vitamins. I’m not sure if this is a poor diet issue or a gut health issue, or a soil depletion issue, but I recommend a B complex to almost everyone I work with. 

Then the other vitamins and minerals for making DAO are Vitamin D as previously mentioned, Vitamin C and Magnesium. These are all essential for breaking down histamine and managing histamine levels via DAO.

And finally, black seed oil, derived from cumin seeds, has also been found in research on rats and humans to be effective in decreasing markers of allergic inflammation, nasal mucosal congestion, nasal itching, runny nose and sneezing attacks. It also has antifungal properties, so if you’re dealing with candida as well as allergies, it’s a good choice. I prefer the liquid as you can get a lot more in 1 tsp. of liquid than you can put in a capsule. Here are a couple good ones:

Heritage Organic Black Seed Oil*

ZHOU Nutrition Organic Black Seed Oil

And if none of this helps you, I should also note that if you have mold or a history of mold in your home or workplace, that and Lyme disease, or Bartonella, can also cause these types of heavy allergy symptoms and what’s called Mast Cell Activation Syndrome, and Bartonella will also give a sense of buzzing or vibrations in body, so you may want to do further testing to see if those things are issues. 


If you’re struggling with  bloating, constipation, diarrhea, soft stool, acid reflux, IBS, IBD or any type of chronic disease, etc. and want to get to the bottom of it, that’s what I help my clients with. You’re welcome to set up a free, 30-minute breakthrough session with me (Lindsey). We’ll talk about what you’ve been going through and I’ll tell you about my 3- and 5- appointment health coaching programs in which I recommend lab tests, educate you on what the results mean and the protocols used by doctors to fix the problems revealed. Or if you’re ready to jump in right away or can just afford one appointment at a time, you can set up an 1-hour consultation with me. 

Schedule a breakthrough session now

What Hair Tissue Mineral Analysis Can Tell You about Gut Health with Hope Pedraza

What Hair Tissue Mineral Analysis Can Tell You about Gut Health with Hope Pedraza

As featured on Feedspot as #18 in gut health blogs!

Adapted from episode 104 of The Perfect Stool podcast hosted by Lindsey Parsons, EdD, Gut Health Coach with Hope Pedraza, FDNP, certified Hair Tissue and Mineral Analysis expert, and edited for readability.

Lindsey: 

So since you’re a certified hair tissue mineral analysis expert, we’re going to talk a lot about minerals today and their role in digestion. So let’s start with the big four minerals.

Hope Pedraza: 

Yeah, I love that; jumping right in. Yes. So the big four are the macro minerals, the ones we need the most of, are calcium, magnesium, potassium and sodium. It’s important to know, especially when we’re looking at hair tissue mineral analysis, that the individual minerals are important. But then also, the relationships between all of the minerals are important. So they all play off each other, right? Some work synergistically with others, some work antagonistically against other. So this is why the right mineral balance is so important, because so often, if we’re not directly addressing what the mineral imbalances are, we could potentially be making things worse, because then we’re taking more of these, when really taking more of these is going to mess these up. So in the big four, the relationship between all four of those is important as well. So when we’re looking at the big four, the the macro minerals, all of those play so many roles in the body, including digestion, how your thyroid is working, how we’re pushing things in and out of the cells. A lot of these also work alongside other minerals as precursors to different hormones and enzymes that are related to digestion, the formation of other hormones. And so the right balance of these four is crucial. I don’t know if you want to go through each one of them individually . . .

Lindsey: 

Yeah, why not?

Hope Pedraza: 

Okay, cool. So I’ll start with calcium. So talking about calcium, calcium is a structural mineral, right, we need it for our bones and our teeth. And really 99% of it is supposed to be in our bones and our teeth. But it’s also needed for your thyroid hormone. So it helps with your metabolism and how your thyroid is working. Now with calcium, I find, at least in doing the labs that I run, that excess is far more common than deficiency. And so when you’re seeing an excess on an HTMA, on a hair tissue mineral analysis, and I should probably explain what that is, too. So if those who are listening, if you don’t know what an HTMA is, it’s a hair tissue mineral analysis. You’re literally sending in some of your hair. And so when you’re looking at your mineral levels, if you’re getting a blood panel, and really honestly, I believe this with just about any blood panel, but especially with looking at minerals, a blood panel is literally just a blip in time, right? It’s like what’s going on right now in your body. And so in a lot of instances, it’s not all that helpful.

And when you’re looking at mineral levels, I find that it’s really not all that helpful. Because it’s like what’s happening now. So it’s not even a look at what’s going on, right, you could take the same lab test in two days, and it’s going to look different on the blood test. Because it’s just what’s going on right now. It’s going to be affected by what you ate last night, what you ate this morning and what you drank yesterday; it’s just going to be so variable. And when you’re looking at mineral levels, the HTMA, we’re looking at what’s going on chronically; what’s going on over the last three to four months. Not only that, but a lot of minerals that we’re looking at, and some of these big four that we’re talking about are intracellular, meaning they’re supposed to be in your cells. So when you’re looking at your blood levels, it’s really not an accurate look at what’s going on at a cellular level, like how your cells are utilizing these minerals. So I wanted to say that upfront, just so people who are listening understand what we’re talking about. We’re talking about the HTMA.

Lindsey: 

Let me stop and say this. So people will see calcium, for example, or magnesium, on the comprehensive metabolic panel, which is one of the common blood tests that’s run. And that is not the same as getting one of these hair tissue mineral analyses. That’s basically saying that your body is functioning at the minimum level possible such that your glands are properly regulating these very important minerals. It’s not saying are you getting sufficient amounts in your diet over time?

Hope Pedraza: 

That’s exactly it. And if we’re talking about the difference between functional labs and conventional labs, that’s the main difference, right? With conventional labs, the reference range is like, “Okay, are you alive?” Like that’s the basic, like why you’re not dead . . .

Lindsey: 

Are you near death, do we need to intervene with an IV instantly?

Hope Pedraza: 

Exactly. That’s exactly it. So with functional labs, we’re looking at optimal levels, right, like, how do we live optimally? So yes, you may make a great point. So yeah, it’s totally different. And so we’re looking at calcium levels on an HTMA. This is what’s being pushed out into your tissues. So the issue here and I mentioned that typically excess is more common than deficiency on these labs when it’s being pushed out into your tissues. This is when we know it’s a problem because it can get to a point where there’s so much being pushed out into your tissues that it’s building up what’s called a calcium shell around your cells and around your nerves. And it’s going to cause the issues with cellular permeability, like how things are getting in and out of your cells, it’s going to cause issues with how your brain is functioning, because now you have this calcium shelf building up around the nerves and stuff in your brain and brain fog.

And I’ve had clients with this massive calcium shell that think – they’ve literally been told they have ADD – well, no, actually, we just need to fix your calcium levels. Literally, we fix your calcium levels, and all of a sudden no more brain fog, and I can concentrate now. It’s wild. So calcium levels are an interesting one. And I mean, sometimes there are symptoms of of calcium excess, but a lot of times they’re not what you think because sometimes you could have calcium buildup in the body, right? If you have like cysts or like bone spurs, kidney stones, that kind of thing.

Lindsey: 

Hardening of the arteries . . .

Hope Pedraza: 

Yes, exactly, calcification inside the arteries, but it doesn’t always show up that way. And it’s like for this client that I was mentioning, she’s always the first thing that comes to mind. Her numbers were literally off the charts. But for her, it wasn’t blatant things like that, it was ADD, trouble concentrating. All these things were big for her, it was more of that kind of thing, like how her brain was functioning, and her thyroid was functioning, because the thyroid wasn’t able to get in the cells because you have this buildup. So calcium is always an interesting one for people and looking at how that shows up.

Lindsey: 

Yeah, in my experience, it’s showing up as high for people that I see as well.

Hope Pedraza: 

Yeah, really?

Lindsey: 

Yeah.

Hope Pedraza: 

Do you find that they have the symptoms? Or is it kind of just like this underlying thing they’re not really aware of?

Lindsey: 

Oh, to be honest, I never knew that brain fog might be a symptom of ADHD or excess calcium. That’s why I have you here to teach us.

Hope Pedraza: 

Yes, totally. And again, just so people listening know, this is a different thing than calcification of the tissues that we’re talking about. And that’s just sometimes how it shows up when it’s pushed out into the tissues. So another one is magnesium. And magnesium is one of those, and I’m sure you talk about magnesium all the time, too. It’s involved in so many processes in the body: digestion, how your hormones are functioning, enzymatic reactions, like with everything that’s going on in the body, magnesium is used. It’s so easily depleted I think because it’s used in so many reactions in the body, that’s how it gets so easily depleted. And I think the number now is between 70 and 80% of us or something like that are deficient in magnesium. I think this is why, and so many of my clients are like “but I’m taking magnesium”.  But we’re doing the lab and I’m like, how’s your magnesium levels?

And they’re taking a supplement but your body is just running through the stores of it. It’s stress, your adrenals, especially when your adrenals are working in overdrive, it’s just pushing through your magnesium stores. Magnesium is one of those that’s responsible for helping us with cell permeability, how things are getting inside of the cells. It helps with muscle contractions, relaxation, like the relaxation of muscles. It’s important for your heart, it’s important for inflammation. And so when we’re deficient, which a lot of us are, things can show up like depression and hypertension, and a lot of times PMS and just inflammatory things. PMS, maybe aches and pains, osteoporosis, maybe arthritis. And a lot of times too in my clients, it may not even be as blatant as that, but it’s just like overall dysfunction in the body. It’s just not functioning optimally, because again, your supplies are running so low. Now, sodium is interesting.

Lindsey: 

Before we go on to sodium, let me just stop you and ask, in your experience, for people who show up as deficient, what kind of repletion levels are you needing on daily basis to get them back to sufficiency?

Hope Pedraza: 

Good question. So it depends on the person and it depends on a few things. But typically, I like to say five times your body weight in milligrams is what you want to shoot for. I feel like a lot of times it’s why people are so deficient. This is one of those that I really like to work with supplements and with food because we’re so deficient. And if you look at most of the supplements on the shelf, they’re like 150-200 milligrams. I just think nothing’s happening with you taking 150 milligrams.

Lindsey: 

But it takes up a lot of space. So you’re taking a lot of pills if you’re going to take it.

Hope Pedraza: 

Right, totally. So if you can find magnesium glycinate, it’s always my number one recommendation; your body absorbs that one the best. It’s easiest on the gut. If you want a laxative, you take magnesium citrate, otherwise don’t take it. But, but a lot of times too, I find, especially with my clients that are super depleted in magnesium, I’ll give them a combination of a few different forms that they need. And we’re going to add in the food on that one. So it’s going to be five times your body weight. So for an average human adult, it would be between like 500-700 milligrams, and so if we shoot for at least that 500 milligrams, I feel like we can be doing a good job of getting us closer to where we need to be. And then again, if somebody’s super deficient, we’ll do a combination like glycinate, maybe a malate, a threonate, putting a few different ones together, even doing some transdermal, like doing some soaks, right? You could do an Epsom salt bath; you could do either magnesium sulfate or magnesium chloride. So doing the transdermal soaks, you sometimes can absorb that a little bit better, and then adding in some food sources too, right?

Lindsey: 

What are some good food sources?

Hope Pedraza: 

Yeah. Think leafy greens, nuts and seeds. I love pumpkin seeds. And I work a lot with women and their hormones, too, so there are a lot of benefits for women’s hormones. But adding in pumpkin seeds . . .

Lindsey: 

I put them on every salad.

Hope Pedraza: 

Yes, totally, me too. I eat them all the time at my house, we eat a ton of seeds. Yes, nuts and seeds. Legumes can be. But I’d say that my top recommendations are typically leafy greens and the nuts and seeds. I feel like that’s the best way to get the magnesium. Yeah. So moving on to sodium, sodium is an interesting one. Because speaking of digestion, this one is actually really important for digestion, because sodium is needed to make proper stomach acid levels. So people that have chronically low stomach acid typically have issues with sodium. And so it never fails that my clients that are low on sodium, which is a lot of them, they have chronic bloating, and it’s because their food’s not being digested properly because they have low stomach acid. And there’s typically other factors at play, but the sodium piece always plays a role in that.

I could literally talk about sodium all day; there’s so much to talk about. And sodium, it’s one of those I find these days, like carbs, where like carbs were villainized for so long, so everybody’s afraid of carbs. And I feel like sodium is the same. You know, you hear from your doctor and everybody else, sodium causes high blood pressure and stroke and all things and eat a low sodium diet and watch yourself. And yes, you can say some of those are true, but in my experience, the way I see it, our sodium problem, especially here in the Western world, I can’t speak for the whole world here. But at least in the Western world, the sodium problem, all these issues that we think sodium is causing is not a sodium intake problem. It’s a sodium retention problem. Because where are we getting the salt from? It’s from processed foods, right? It’s from table salt.

Table salt is the equivalent of white sugar, right? It’s had all these chemicals put in it to strip every nutritional value from it, and you’re literally left with the sodium chloride. That’s it. And so when you’re looking at comparing that to unrefined salt, my recommendation is always Celtic sea salt*. It’s just so rich in so many trace minerals you’re looking at. To compare it, you’re looking at like anywhere from 85 to 95 other trace minerals in Celtic salt versus table salt, which is literally just sodium chloride. And so when you’re eating unrefined sea salt, you’re getting all these other trace minerals along with the sodium. So all these other minerals are pushing this sodium where it needs to go, it’s pushing all these other minerals where they need to go versus when you eat the table salt, just that refined salt from processed foods, your cells just soak it up. And then again, it’s a sodium retention problem. So yeah, when you eat the standard American diet, the salt intake is going to affect things.

So when I’m doing the HTMA, I would say deficiency is far more common than excess in sodium. And it’s typically for this reason, well, first of all, a lot of it has to do with your adrenals. Your adrenals use more sodium than any other part of the body. So our overworked, stressed-out adrenals are zapping through your sodium stores just like what’s happening with your magnesium stores. It never fails. When I have somebody who has adrenal insufficiency or their adrenals are just totally shot, they’re bloated all the time. Well yeah, your sodium levels are in the toilet and your body’s not digesting food. Your stomach is not functioning right, you know? Your stomach acid is probably barely existing. And so yeah, your digestion is going to suffer.

So it’s just like this chain reaction with the minerals. Which again, I love minerals so much and your listeners have probably heard that minerals are called the spark plugs in the body, right? But if you really think about that, nothing happens in the body without the minerals, or what’s going on at a cellular level. And this is what’s causing every reaction in the body: your digestion, your hormones, your glands; everything going on starts with the minerals. So yeah, I think understanding this kind of chain reaction, especially when we’re talking about digestion, the sodium piece is always a big one there.

Lindsey: 

Cool, yeah. Yeah, I know. I know. It’s because we are dealing with, well, I don’t know if you, but in my clients, I’m dealing with a certain subset of people who are already on a super-healthy, non processed food diet. They’ve already cut out the gluten and the dairy, so they’re all dialed in. So it’s that kind of diet where you precisely can end up with these deficiencies, sodium.

Hope Pedraza: 

Yeah. Right. For sure. Yeah. And my mom, for example, I use my mom as an example. I’ve read some labs and yeah, granted, she also grew up in a generation where the doctor makes you terrified of salt. So she’s not putting salt on anything. And she’s wondering why she has headaches all the time. And I kept telling her, your sodium levels. And then it wasn’t until her friend who’s a nurse was like, oh, yeah, your daughter is probably right, that she starts adding some salt to her diet. And sure enough, things start shifting. But yeah, it definitely affects things in a way that I think we just, again, I think we’ve just been so scared of it for so long, because we don’t want to have a stroke or heart attack. It’s like we avoid the sodium. It makes a difference.

Lindsey: 

Now I’m super curious what my sodium level was on my on my hair. Yeah. Let’s see where it was. It’s a little bit low.

Hope Pedraza: 

Yeah. Probably. Yeah

Lindsey: 

It’s 30. And the range is 20 to 250. So it’s normal, but it’s not great.

Hope Pedraza: 

Yeah, trending low. Yeah, that one is super common. And that usually surprises people, the sodium thing usually surprises people. Okay, so the last one of the big four is potassium. And this is one of those intracellular minerals that 99% of it, it’s in your cell. So a blood level or blood panel, tor me, it’s not really an accurate look at potassium, it’s just not. So really, and I’ve actually I’ve had a couple clients with this, they’ve gone to the doctor and their blood levels are actually elevated. Well, that actually is a bad thing. Because that means the potassium is in your blood and not in your cell. So this is like a loss, like your body’s not using it in the right way. So potassium is one of those that helps with your blood pressure, it helps with helping things in and out of the cells. What I find most important for potassium is it is responsible for how sensitive your cells are to your thyroid hormone. And so a lot of my clients who are struggling with their thyroid, their potassium is super low. And I find a lot of times too, this can also affect your digestion. Deficiency on this one is far more common. I mean, honestly, I can probably count on one hand the number of clients I’ve had where their potassium levels are where they’re supposed to be. Everybody is low, like it doesn’t matter what . . .

Lindsey: 

I’m deficient in potassium, and yeah, even if I add up all my food in Cronometer, I’m deficient in it, what I’m getting from the diet for sure.

Hope Pedraza: 

It’s hard to get, it really is hard to get it and we were supposed to have like 4500 milligrams a day. That’s a lot. It’s a lot so it’s not hard to be deficient in it. So this is another one like magnesium where I really like to do the supplement with the food, where . . .

Lindsey: 

You kind of have to because you can only get 99 milligram supplements, right? So yeah, what foods are . . .

Hope Pedraza: 

The best foods, my top three that I always recommend, especially for my thyroid clients: bananas, avocados and coconut water. For me those three are like top three.

Lindsey: 

I just can’t stomach coconut water.

Hope Pedraza: 

I can’t either, my gosh, it’s like you’re expecting it to taste different than it does. I don’t know what it is. So for my clients I’m like throw it in a smoothie where we’re covering it up with other things because I’m the same way.

Lindsey: 

Mix it with fruit or something; it’s just too sweet.

Hope Pedraza: 

Exactly, it is. I can’t.

Lindsey: 

I just like water.

Hope Pedraza: 

Exactly, exactly. Yeah, no, I can’t do it either. It kind of grosses me out but if you know can cover it up with other things or mix it with something else. But really those three, in my opinion, are the highest. And you can put all three of those in a smoothie and you’d be getting a whole lot in just one serving, one meal.

Lindsey: 

Yeah, I also found that just a glass of orange juice has 200 milligrams of potassium. My mom was deficient and I’m just like, have a second glass of orange juice a day. Let’s not overthink it.

Hope Pedraza: 

Exactly. Make it easy. Totally. Yeah, those fortified juices like that for sure. It’s a great way to get it and I find, hypothyroidism and constipation go and in hand. So there’s a lot of links there. But the constipation part is pretty common with those who are deficient in potassium. Constipation, a lot of times fatigue, I had clients who have irregular heartbeat situations going on, super tired and not able to tolerate exercise, unable to recover from extra exercise, muscle weakness. So a lot of those are are signs of pretty substantial deficiency in potassium. And then if you know that you have a sluggish thyroid or you know that you’re hypothyroid, it’s one of the best things you can do. And of course, you know, about the selenium and iodine and stuff, but potassium is one of those I feel like isn’t talked about enough for the thyroid. It really does make a big difference. We can get those levels up to a good . . .

Lindsey: 

Yeah. Yeah. And I keep thinking about how can I get more potassium personally.

Hope Pedraza: 

It’s a tricky one.

Lindsey: 

I definitely don’t want to drink smoothies. So I’m being sort of a pain in the butt, but I love my egg and my vegetables and the stuff that I’m eating for breakfast, I just love that routine. And if I have to have a smoothie, that’s replacing that.

Hope Pedraza: 

Totally, just add some extra avocado on it. You’ll get some with that.

Lindsey: 

But it’s so fattening.

Hope Pedraza: 

I know, you have to weigh it out.

Lindsey: 

Digging it down to the actual problem, the problem is that I want to eat that half a gluten-free English muffin with my breakfast, and that’s eating up some calories and some stomach space. And if I’m adding in avocado and all that, there’s just no more room.

Hope Pedraza: 

It’s so true. It’s a tricky one, it is.

Lindsey: 

Okay, so we’re done with the big four.

Hope Pedraza: 

Yeah, the big four. That’s it.

Lindsey: 

Okay, awesome. So, one of the minerals we need at lower doses, zinc, which is often recommended to support the immune system. Of course, if you have Hashimotos or autoimmunity, it’s important. And then the form of zinc carnosine, in particular, is recommended for gut health issues. So can you dig in a little on zinc and its forms? And how and why to supplement, and of course, its relationship with copper.

Hope Pedraza: 

Yeah, yeah. So zinc is another really important one, it helps again, it’s kind of one of those along with sodium that helps with stomach acid for healthy levels of stomach acid. It’s a precursor to quite a few digestive enzymes. And so it’s important for proper formation, creation of digestive enzymes. And zinc and copper have a really important relationship. And this is one that we look at on the HTMA, that relationship between zinc and copper, because they can work with or against each other. And this is typically one that I look at is in terms of hormone, it’s kind of the hormone ratio, the zinc to copper ratio.

And so copper can stimulate the production of estrogen. And so when there’s too much copper, not enough zinc, this starts to look like estrogen dominance; it can cause a real problem with the hormones. And so that’s when the zinc and the copper are off. And a lot of times too, copper toxicity is something that I see, and you might see this a lot with your clients too. But copper toxicity is something that shows up a lot with my clients. And so often, there are multiple issues here. A lot of times it is a zinc situation, where the zinc is just so low, and it could be an immunity thing. It could just be that their diet is just off and they’re just not getting enough zinc. But a lot of times too, it’s just from exposure to actual copper itself. And so I would say, probably 7 out of 10 of my clients have copper toxicity.

Lindsey: 

From pipes, or where are they getting it?

Hope Pedraza: 

Well, a lot of times, a lot of times it’s from birth control, either birth control or an IUD. Prolonged use and sometimes it doesn’t even have to be prolonged use. I think it’s like parasites, right? Like, sometimes you’re just a hospitable host to a parasite. That’s how it happens. And I think sometimes with copper, it’s the same thing. It’s like, well, maybe your vital functions were a little bit down and then your body just harbored it right? Because a lot of times I have clients where I wasn’t even on it for that long and sometimes it just happens that way. So I find sometimes it is copper pipes and I have actually only had a couple of clients where that was the case. For most of my clients, it’s a birth control situation or IUD.

Lindsey: 

Are you talking about the copper IUD in particular or from just other birth control?

Hope Pedraza: 

Either just because the stimulation of estrogen in the body is going to actually mess with this copper to zinc ratio as is birth control in and of itself; it depletes zinc in the body. A lot of minerals that are depleted by taking birth control and so when you’re depleting zinc, then copper naturally.

Lindsey: 

Yeah, yeah. Okay. And so they’re on different scales. And like I have an example of my mineral analysis. And copper is on a scale on this one from 11 to 37, zinc from 20 to 140. So how do you work the ratio?

Hope Pedraza: 

Yeah. So if you’re looking at, let me see if I can put one of mine in it that I just did the other day, because she had a really crazy ratio. And here’s the other thing about the HTMA. And this is why, it’s always good to have somebody who knows how to read them, because you can look at an HTMA at face value. And you could read it like 25 different ways. Because you can look at it, you can look at the the individual minerals, like, “Oh, this one looks kind of slow”, or whatever. But then if you look at the ratios, looking at the ratios changes how you interpret the whole thing. And so that’s how it is with zinc to copper ratio, because a lot of times it can look like “Oh, my zinc and my copper aren’t too far out of the reference range.” But in comparison to each other, they’re really off. So like my client, we had a session other day, her copper was a little low. But her zinc was so much further off than the copper. So now we’ve got this messed up zinc to copper ratio. So it’s really just looking at them in relation to each other, not not the individual zinc level and copper level, you really have to look at at the . . .

Lindsey: 

Yeah, like on my test. It does show at the bottom the ratios. Zinc to copper, the range is four to 20. Mine is 15.

Hope Pedraza: 

Yeah, yeah. So just a little bit elevated. Yeah, yeah.

Lindsey: 

Oh you’d call that elevated?

Hope Pedraza: 

A little bit. A little. It’s like trending elevated. Do you know which lab?

Lindsey: 

Mine is Doctors Data.

Hope Pedraza: 

Okay, I use Trace Elements. I think their ranges are a little bit different. Because basically over 12 is considered elevated in theirs, but I wouldn’t be too alarmed at 15.

Lindsey: 

I don’t take any copper in any capacity.

Hope Pedraza: 

Yeah. Also, I’ve had clients who, and it’s not all the time, but some who are, if you’re on a vegan or vegetarian diet, and you’re eating foods that are higher in copper, your copper can be really elevated from eating predominantly plant-based food and not being balanced out with the zinc. So yeah, that can happen that way. Yeah.

Lindsey: 

But I also see the opposite, which is, occasionally I do see people who seem like they may be low on copper because I don’t know if you’re familiar with the whole conversion of dopamine to epinephrine, norepinephrine requires vitamin C and copper, and I’ll see people with high dopamine, but then low epinephrine and norepinephrine. So that’s a potential copper deficiency. So I’ll see that a good bit. And people do tend to supplement with zinc, people who are aware of it helping your immune system. So I mean, they might be taking 50 milligrams of zinc a day, and eventually you’re going to end up with a copper deficiency.

Hope Pedraza: 

Totally, exactly. That’s so true. Yeah. And you know, it’s funny, you say that. It was in my FDN group, I think somebody was having conversation about that. Because throughout COVID, everybody was downing vitamin D and zinc. And all these things are trying to boost our immune system. And we were talking about how we’ve seen a lot more clients than normal have really high zinc levels, because they’re taking zinc like all day, every day, which is also going to be a little harsh on your stomach, by the way, so be careful. Yeah.

Lindsey: 

So did you mention anything about zinc carnosine?

Hope Pedraza: 

Just in terms of like which form to take it in? Yeah, I think I don’t have strict stipulations on what form that I give it in. A lot of times the form that I use, so when I do my mineral protocol for my clients, I use Vykon, which is a lab that basically customizes it to your HTMA. And therefore, most the time, it’s zinc picolinate. And that’s usually the form that it’s in. I think, the form for zinc to me, I’m not a stickler about the form on that one as much as others, especially magnesium and potassium and those. So I’d say the form, I just don’t find it as important.

Lindsey: 

Yeah, the zinc carnosine is just something that that’s used often when there is H. Pylori to help out with gut issues. So that’s why I wanted to bring it up. But moving on. So what other minerals do we need in smaller quantities? And what role do they play in digestion?

Hope Pedraza: 

Yes. So let’s see. So if you get the HTMA, it’s going to measure a few different, well, it depends on the lab, usually, it’s anywhere from like 20 to 24 different minerals. So let’s see, manganese is one. And I don’t want to say it’s directly influencing digestion, but it’s important for mitochondrial energy production in the cell. So because the mitochondria, the energy parts of the cells, and we need that for every part of the body and every function in the body. So I think manganese is one that can be really important just for overall function of the body, but with you know, thyroid function, digestion, just overall mineral balance, manganese can be important one.

I find that chromium, and chromium typically you hear that talked about in terms of blood sugar regulation, but I find that it does help. Again, it’s kind of one of those, it’s all a chain reaction, right, they’re all connected. And so it’s hard to pick which one because they’re all affecting so many things with chromium. It’s important for blood sugar regulation and insulin control, and your insulin and your cortisol are so related, and that’s going to affect your adrenals. There are so many things tied to how chromium is working. And the other part of that, linking a little bit more to digestion is a lot of times the more deficient in chromium, we have more sugar cravings and carb cravings. And it can lead to dysfunction that way, just because we’re eating things that we might not normally be eating just because those levels are low.

Cobalt is another one and there’s like many schools of thought about cobalt, like some people, some experts say it should be as low as possible. But we do need some levels of cobalt, we have to; it’s this precursor to B12. We have to have that intrinsic factor in the guts to make B12. So all of that is related to gut function. And it’s also related to liver function. Super low levels and super high levels of cobalt typically indicate low stomach acid or a stomach acid issue. Super high levels typically, in my experience, simply indicate some sort of liver stress. And so when I see super high levels, actually my client the other day, where I was just talking about her lab, her cobalt was really high. And we saw some other labs, there was definitely liver stress. She had H pylori, so affecting her stomach acid. So there’s a lot of signs, and the high cobalt was a red flag. So something’s going on with your gut and liver with the cobalt. So cobalt is one of those that I like to look at. Let’s see, I’m trying to think of a few more.

Lindsey: 

Well we should talk about iron for sure. Because that’s one a lot of people are deficient in and you can get high iron.

Hope Pedraza: 

Yes, exactly. Yeah. And I will say the HTMA is not – you should never use the HTMA alone for iron levels; you really need to get your blood ferritin levels checked. If you really want an accurate look at what’s going on with your iron levels. On an HTMA, when I’m looking at it, I never look at it in isolation. Like in isolation, it’s not really going to tell you a whole lot, but you can look at it in relation to some of the other minerals. But just in general, definitely get your iron levels checked. But if your serum levels are, you’re getting your ferritin checked for deficiency, right? Chronic Candida is common with low levels. Obviously, your thyroid, we need we need good iron levels for your thyroid. And then too much is a breeding ground for potential pathogens, right? We have too much iron, it can feed pathogens. So yeah, iron is one of those that the healthy balance is really important.

Lindsey: 

Yeah, I’ve been struggling with trying to get enough iron all my life. And I’ve had this problem with fragile cracking nails for a long time. And then it suddenly got significantly worse. And I have been borderline anemic for most of my life. And more iron deficient at the moment, but at various points also B12 deficient, because I at one point had pernicious anemia. But you know, I take the methylcobalamin sublinguals. So B12 is not an issue now. Yeah, but anyway, I got my ferritin numbers up significantly. And I switched from taking ferrous sulfate, which was the cheap drugstore form to the iron bisglycinate, which has been much more effective and at much lower doses. But anyway, the sudden decrease in the hardness of my nails made me wonder if I did have heavy metal toxicity or something. And my hair was falling out in buckets. So I got the hair tissue mineral analysis. Yeah, it was probably about four or five months ago at this point. And it showed, despite the fact that I was measuring high in blood, you know, my ferritin was very normal, it shows still showed a deficiency, but you’re saying maybe trust the blood more than the than the hair.

Hope Pedraza: 

I would trust the blood, yeah, for sure.

Lindsey: 

Okay. But then I was listening to this webinar, and the doctor giving it was pointing out that iodine, iron, magnesium and calcium all compete for absorption. And I was taking iron supplements at the same time I was taking my iodine. And my iodine came up fine on my hair. So I said, I’m going to stop taking the iodine and I’m going to take my iron supplementation and put it on an empty stomach just with my vitamin C. So it helps absorb it. And away from the calcium, magnesium, and it seems like my nails have been getting better since then.

Hope Pedraza: 

That’s awesome.

Lindsey: 

I’m wondering what other minerals or things could be playing into the nails and the hair?

Hope Pedraza: 

Yeah, yeah. I think a lot of times it’s what’s competing with what in a sense, because calcium obviously is a structural mineral, like I mentioned, like it’s in the bones, the teeth, that kind of thing. But I think a lot of times it has to do with these other minerals competing and vitamins too, vitamins and minerals. Because calcium competes with magnesium, it competes with phosphorus, it competes with a couple B vitamins, but then it works together with vitamin A and vitamin D and vitamin C, magnesium. So I think a lot of times it has to do with the combination of vitamins and minerals working together that can affect the hair and the nails. Because the nail thing isn’t super common, but the hair thing, I have quite a few in here. It’s like their hair is thinning, or it’s coming out. But a lot of times it’s those thyroid minerals, right, and that’s kind of one of the signs of a thyroid-ism. Right. So we’re looking at selenium and iodine and iron, like we said, and potassium is another of those thyroid minerals.

Lindsey: 

Yeah, maybe I need to dig in on the potassium. Because I’ve checked all the others.

Hope Pedraza: 

Eat some more bananas. Maybe you can add more bananas into your life without the fat of the avocado.

Lindsey: 

Okay. I’ll work on the bananas. How about plantain chips?

Hope Pedraza: 

There you go. Don’t want to eat any more bananas?

Lindsey: 

No, I’m really a pain when it comes to diet. If my clients were as bad as I am, they’d never get better.

Hope Pedraza: 

That’s hilarious.

Lindsey: 

So yeah, I was also low in phosphorus and chromium in my thing and have now twice been low on chromium on different tests. So I’ve just finally sucked it up and started supplementing with chromium. Because if that’s bringing down my blood sugar awesome, that’s nothing but positive.

Hope Pedraza: 

Totally, totally. Yeah, for sure.

Lindsey: 

But I did. I did read on the analysis that phosphorus, it’s not good to measure phosphorus in your hair. That that’s not the best way.

Hope Pedraza: 

Yeah, not the best way. Yeah, I mean, I’d say for phosphorus, it’s one of those I don’t ever really look at in isolation. I look at it in relation to calcium. Like the calcium/phosphorus ratio is like your nervous system ratio, kind of how your nervous system is functioning. But yeah, I’d say looking at it in isolation is not too accurate.

Lindsey: 

Yeah, what’s the chemical signal symbol for phosphorus? It’s P. Okay so I see, CA/P: 9.5; 1 to 12 is the scale.

Hope Pedraza: 

Oh yes, right in the middle.

Lindsey: 

Okay, good. Any other minerals that you want to mention?

Hope Pedraza: 

I think we hit the heavy hitters.

Lindsey: 

Okay. Well, should we talk about iodine for a sec?

Hope Pedraza: 

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Let’s talk about iodine. Yeah, iodine is a good one. This is one that I look at a lot because I’ve worked with a lot of women who have different thyroid-isms and that kind of thing. And iodine, of course, is really important for the thyroid. And iodine and selenium are the two that we look at the most. Well, yeah, potassium, like I mentioned before, but iodine and selenium are the ones you look at the most in terms of thyroid function. Now, I will also say about iodine, hair tissue mineral analysis is not the best way to look at iodine either. Because it’s excreted in the urine and not in the tissue. So you really want to get an accurate look at iodine, you want to get a urine test. Now, I admit there’s a lot of controversy around iodine and giving people iodine protocol or not to give people iodine protocol, because there is such thing as too much right. There is such thing, especially if you have a thyroid-ism.

Lindsey: 

Hashimoto’s in particular, you don’t want to overdo the iodine.

Hope Pedraza: 

Yeah, exactly. You don’t want to overdo it. So I always lead with caution with the iodine. If I’m getting recommend things, I very rarely ever do an actual iodine protocol where we’re loading the body with liquid iodine. Typically, it’s like, take a kelp supplement. If you take a kelp supplement, it’s lower doses. And it’s safer that way, especially again, if it’s Hashimoto’s, so we’re not overloading the body.

Lindsey: 

Yeah. I usually stick to the RDA (recommended daily allowance), no more, and then think about what’s in your food too. And then, less than the RDA.

Hope Pedraza: 

Exactly. Because if you’re already eating sea vegetables and sea products, then you’re already getting some.

Lindsey: 

Right, and then also people are often taking multis, which have the 150 micrograms, the RDA.

Hope Pedraza: 

The RDA, yeah. And that’s why if I really suspect a really, really bad deficiency, then let’s do a different test. Like I’m not going to look at the HTMA. Like let’s do the urine test to make sure. Otherwise, let’s support just basic levels because you can look at potassium, copper, selenium, you can also look at mercury and look at certain ratios of those and where those numbers are to get an idea of if you’re iodine deficient or not. And you can look at calcium; I don’t know if I mentioned calcium. But if you look at where those minerals are, you can get an idea if there’s deficiency in iodine. And so if those are red flags, they’re looking at your lithium or potassium or calcium, all those, then yeah, let’s do a urine test to see where your iodine levels are. But if I’m not getting a bunch of red flags, then I’m not going to go overboard. Let’s say, just the normal levels that you would get in a multivitamin.

Lindsey: 

Right, right. Okay. So since we’re talking about minerals for gut health, I wanted to ask about two of the big supplements that are often recommended for healing the gut lining, collagen and l-glutamine. Do you use those in your practice? And if so, in what situations and dosages?

Hope Pedraza: 

Yeah, I do. Recently, at least in my FDN group, there’s been discussions on l-glutamine, like to use glutamine or to not use glutamine. For me, well, it depends on the person, like how much gut lining healing that we’re doing. I really find that collagen can be a good support for that. So I do recommend collagen for most, just kind of as a maintenance thing ongoing. I think it’s something that’s okay to take every day, taking in a good quality form. Like I think was a type one and three are supposed to be the best ones to help with the gut. So I do use those. L-glutamine, I typically don’t use it in isolation. Like if I use l-glutamine, it’s in conjunction with other things that are helping with the gut lining. So there’s cat’s claw. There’s like a bunch of botanicals mixed in with . . .

Lindsey: 

. . . like aloe vera and marshmallow and DGL and all that right? Yeah, like GI benefits, or GI Response.

Hope Pedraza: 

Yeah. And there’s the the Mega Mucosa. Yeah, yeah.

Lindsey: 

Okay. Do you use butyrate at all in your practice? I ask, because I just launched a supplement and I’m kind of obsessed with butyrate at the moment.

Hope Pedraza: 

I do. Yeah, I mean, that’s one of those I I’ve included here recently with some some clients. So yeah, I have been looking at that. Yeah. Yeah, that’s awesome.

Lindsey: 

Okay. Let me see if I’ve asked you everything. Oh, yeah, the heavy metals. So I, you know, I did my analysis to look also for heavy metals, not just for the minerals. And it showed me as kind of high in uranium and silver. And I’m like, what do about that?

Hope Pedraza: 

You know, it’s funny about the uranium. Now the one that I use doesn’t measure silver. So that’s not one that shows up on mine. But uranium is. It’s funny.

Lindsey: 

I know, like, where the heck am I getting that, is it maybe in my shampoo? I’m hoping that’s where it’s coming from, like, not from inside my body.

Hope Pedraza: 

Now, most of the time, and this has been true for two of my clients, the other one, it was still a mystery. Like, I still can’t figure where it came from. For two of my clients, it was well water. And that was where it was coming from. So typically, you’re finding uranium in granite rock, right? So if you’re drinking well, water, if you’re eating vegetables grown in a place with high granite rock or not washing them, then that could be it. But I’d still find that a couple of my clients, it’s been a mystery, like, where’s the uranium? Like, you’re not working in a mine anywhere?

Lindsey: 

I know. And I’m using that Zero Water filter and changing them every two weeks. No, it is not my water.

Hope Pedraza: 

That’s hilarious.

Lindsey: 

 Yeah. Then I have again, no idea. And unless the silver’s coming from my jewelry, which I suppose it could be leaking from jewelry because I wear silver jewelry all the time.

Hope Pedraza: 

Yeah, it’s possible. It’s possible. Yeah, the heavy metals are funny. So I would say mercury and aluminum are probably the ones that show up the most often. And honestly, in some levels, it’s going to show up. Like I don’t know if I’ve yet to have a test that aluminum doesn’t show up at least a little bit. Now, if it’s above a certain range, it’s like, okay, let’s talk about how we can reduce your exposure to aluminum. Mercury and aluminum are probably the ones that show up the most often.

And then there’s all these, I feel like they’re obscure. I mean, I guess they’re not because we most of them are ones we’ve heard of. Some more obscure elements and heavy metals that come up are bismuth and titanium and strontium, these random minerals. And most of the time, it’s coming from your makeup and from your personal care products. And so I have my clients who have these random, like,”What’s the bismuth from?” I’m like “Oh, you know bismuth is an ingredient in a lot of concealers and foundations and stuff.” So it’s, it’s the personal care products and the cosmetics and all the things that a lot of times really go overlooked in terms of how it’s affecting our health. Your body, your skin is absorbing all of that.

Lindsey: 

Yeah, well, who knows? Maybe that’s where I’m getting my uranium and/or my silver. But they were both in the yellow so I’m not sweating it too much.  Back to aluminum though, I did catch high aluminum levels I think in both of my parents and sent them off to drink five liters of Fiji water, a liter a day, because it has high levels of silica, which chelates aluminum. And of course high aluminum being a risk for Alzheimer’s. And it successfully brought the levels down.

Hope Pedraza: 

That’s amazing. I love that.

Lindsey: 

I don’t drink Fiji water all day because it’s expensive, but I do keep it by the side of my bed and that’s how I refill my nightly water bottle just because there are so many sources of aluminum that keep coming back in, with your aluminum foil and my wok is made of aluminum and various people use pans with aluminum.

Hope Pedraza: 

 Right, right. It’s true. Yeah, I love that; such a good remedy.

Lindsey: 

Yeah, I know there are some multis that have silica in them too, though. And you can just buy silica pills as well.

Hope Pedraza: 

Yeah, yeah. It’s easier to drink the water though.

Lindsey: 

I know it’s more fun. I feel very fancy.

Hope Pedraza: 

Exactly. You feel all bougie drinking your Fiji water, right?

Lindsey: 

My kids are like,”Oh, can I have some?” They think it’s a super special thing. And I’m like, “Sorry, that’s mom’s Fiji water.”

Hope Pedraza: 

Fiji water. That’s awesome.

Lindsey: 

Okay, so tell me where folks can find you.

Hope Pedraza: 

You can find me on Instagram; I’m @thehopepedraza on Instagram. And then you can visit my website. It’s hopefulandwholesome.com with everything you need to know about what I do and what I offer.

Lindsey: 

Okay, awesome. And I will include links for that in the show notes. Any parting thoughts?

Hope Pedraza: 

Yeah, you know, I am a proponent of the HTMA. I’ll just say that, even if you’re not doing A full panel of functional labs. HTMA, really, and I’m not getting paid to say this; I don’t get paid by the labs. I’m saying this just from just from my heart here. It really is the cheapest functional lab you can do to give you some of the most helpful data. I mean, the one I run is like 50 bucks. It is super cheap. And it does all of this, all of the heavy metals and the heavy hitters, all the big minerals, and it gives so much data. And so if you’re looking for a simple way to start making meaningful changes and wondering just overall function in the body, I really feel like the HTMA is the best way to go. And that’s the easiest in the end, it’s just hair. You don’t have to poop in anything. You don’t have to pee on anything. It’s just hair. So I find it’s pretty simple and inexpensive.

Lindsey: 

Yeah, I will see if I can add that to my Rupa Health Lab store*. Yeah. And that way people can find it there off of my website. But in any case, I definitely do have the one on there, the Hair Elements by Doctors Data on there right now, which isn’t isn’t 50 bucks, but it’s like $120 or so. It’s not too bad.

Hope Pedraza: 

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It’s a cheap way to know what’s going on in your body.

Lindsey: 

Compared to all the other functional medicine tests, yeah, that’s a bargain.  Okay, well, this was a fun conversation. And I learned a lot because we actually haven’t talked about minerals at all before on the podcast. So, so this was great. Thank you so much.


If you’re struggling with  bloating, constipation, diarrhea, soft stool, acid reflux, IBS, IBD or any type of chronic disease, etc. and want to get to the bottom of it, that’s what I help my clients with. You’re welcome to set up a free, 30-minute breakthrough session with me (Lindsey). We’ll talk about what you’ve been going through and I’ll tell you about my 3- and 5- appointment health coaching programs in which I recommend lab tests, educate you on what the results mean and the protocols used by doctors to fix the problems revealed. Or if you’re ready to jump in right away or can just afford one appointment at a time, you can set up an 1-hour consultation with me. 

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From FMT to Thaenabiotic: Andrea McBeth, ND on Microbiome Innovations

From FMT to Thaenabiotic: Andrea McBeth, ND on Microbiome Innovations

Adapted from episode 103 of The Perfect Stool podcast hosted by Lindsey Parsons, EdD, Gut Health Coach with Andrea McBeth, ND, Co-Founder of Thaena, and edited for readability.

Lindsey: 

So why don’t we lead off with a description of what Thaenabiotic is so that people have some context of what we’re talking about, since this is such a new and different product. And then we’ll get some background and then finish up with the research and uses and such.

Andrea McBeth: 

Sure. Thaenabiotic is a postbiotic, but specifically, the postbiotics that we extract from healthy human stool through a process that involves autoclaving, which is high heat and pressure sterilization, and then freeze drying.

Lindsey: 

And what is a postbiotic?

Andrea McBeth: 

We’ve heard of probiotics–those are the live organisms that either are cultured in food, and we eat and they confer a health benefit. Sometimes we also think about the microbes in our gut and microbiome. The food that they eat are the prebiotics, which we have also started to hear about, so fiber, vegetables and things like that. And the postbiotics are the molecules that the bacteria make when they consume those prebiotics. So the food that the bacteria eat gets converted through metabolism into small molecules that we’re now starting to look at and think about and call postbiotics.

Lindsey: 

Right? So, for example, short chain fatty acids like butyrate?

Andrea McBeth: 

Yes.

Lindsey: 

Okay. So I think people have some familiarity with at least that because I have a butyrate supplement that was recently put on the market and have talked a lot about it in my podcasts. How do you screen your donors for Thaenabiotic? Are you doing metagenomic sequencing of their microbiomes to ensure they have good protective bacteria? And if so, how often? And how often do you screen for other things like STIs?

Andrea McBeth: 

So we derived this from work we were doing in a fecal transplant stool bank setting. We both are doing all the infectious disease testing and whole genome sequencing and defining health through a series of history, intake and surveys. So beyond “do you have bad bacteria, are you healthy, have you had histories of infection or exposure to antibiotics or other medications?” we also consider, “what do you eat, what is your lifestyle, were you vaginally born and were you breastfed?” We still don’t have a really clear definition of health. But basically, our approach has been to take everything we do know and to the best of our ability identify and filter out people–super poopers–that meet all the characters of a healthy microbiome, with the caveat that we don’t know exactly what a healthy microbiome is. There’s nuance there, but we’re doing the best we can. We had a person working for us for a while who was really concerned about plastics. So, we added a question about using plastic water bottles, because that’s one of the places where people get really high concentrations of plastics in the diet, and that’s a disqualifier for us.

Lindsey: 

Okay. But specifically, are you checking to see if they have all the keystone species of a healthy microbiome, for example?

Andrea McBeth: 

We have gone back and forth on how to characterize that. We look at their alpha and beta diversity, we look at the species, but we don’t actually have explicit exclusion criteria, because what we’re concerned about is what metabolites they’re making. And as we know, Akkermansia, for example, can be a beneficial bacteria and is important. But if you don’t have the most Akkermansia, that doesn’t mean you don’t have the enzymatic genes within the microbiome to make the metabolites we care about. So although we are looking and collecting that data and thinking about it, we don’t have explicit inclusion and exclusion, good guys and bad guys amongst the commensals. But we are trying to classify these people as both healthy in lifestyle and history and healthy in microbiome diversity, at least.

Lindsey: 

And how often would you screen somebody for infectious diseases?

Andrea McBeth: 

So we screen every six months, and we also have a continuous conversation with our donors with the contractual agreement that anytime they sneeze or have a period of grief or anything that would perturb their microbiome in any way, we communicate and put them on pause, and then we retest before bringing them back on.

Lindsey: 

And are you getting pooled donations? Or are you getting a product that’s just coming from one person?

Andrea McBeth: 

Yeah, so we have multiple donors, and what we’re doing is identifying within a certain sub-batch a group of their individual persons’ stools and pooling those. And then, we can have a fingerprint of their metabolites, the end product, and then we pool those with other donors so that we’re getting a diverse array of metabolites. But we’re not pooling their bacteria, if that makes sense. We’re autoclaving as the first step, so everything is getting killed. But at the end, it is a mixture of multiple people’s metabolites.

Lindsey: 

I’m not sure I understood exactly the distinction there. So you’re pooling a smaller group, and then you’re pooling it into a bigger group?

Andrea McBeth: 

Were subclassifying it so that we can verify that we’re working within a single donor. Another part of this project is to start to understand the characteristics of metabolites that are coming from different people at different time points. So we’re collecting samples along the way, the end product is pooled between multiple donors and many, many stools.

Lindsey: 

Okay, so are the dead bacteria gone too, or are the dead bacteria in there?

Andrea McBeth: 

There are. It really is a prebiotic/parabiotic/postbiotic in its entirety, because it is whole stool that’s autoclaved. We do some processing to pull and save short chain fatty acids, but we’re not filtering everything out. The end product is a mixture of a little bit of everything.

Lindsey: 

So it does have dead bacteria. And how do you pull out fecal material then from the mix? Or is it still in there?

Andrea McBeth: 

Well, fecal material is a mixture of prebiotics and bacteria and dead cells and all that stuff.

Lindsey: 

So I guess maybe what I’m trying to get at is, like a typical fecal transplant, if you did it in capsule format, you might be taking 50 capsules or something. Right? So how does what’s in one capsule encapsulate enough of what you need?

Andrea McBeth: 

So early on, we were like, well, is this going to do anything, right? Our idea was, what if we could pool the postbiotics specifically in a small amount and put it into a supplement format. And when you think about fecal transplant, you think about 30 capsules, or a whole bunch of stool. What we’re doing here is, one capsule is roughly equivalent to about a half a gram of stool, so not very much at all, when we get to the end product, which is about 100 milligrams of the powder. But, it does seem to have a physiologic effect in terms of just the anecdotal observations we’ve been having as a nutrient or benefit, not in the same way that you would get bacteria engraftment from an FMT or grams of butyrate from a butyrate supplement, for example, but a mixture of thousands of these small molecules, and a really small amount that are working synergistically to support motility or interact with mitochondria or interact with the native microbiome and shift it from really subtle cell signaling. To the best of our preclinical and clinical observation, it’s doing something related to small molecule nudging–of less so the short-chain fatty acids. There are some, but it’s a relatively small amount of short chain fatty acids. Our basic mechanistic understanding and thought right now is that it’s the combinatorial effect of lots of these postbiotics in synergy at small concentrations.

Lindsey: 

Well, we’ll get into a little bit more about what the postbiotics are in a minute, but I just wanted to dig in a little bit on what got you interested in gastrointestinal conditions and treatments.

Andrea McBeth: 

I love the microbiome, I think it’s the coolest way to frame nutrition and environmental medicine, and why what we eat, drink and think matters in the world. My passion has always been chemistry and molecular biology. After doing some work in the cancer space and having a family member who had cancer and going through that on the patient side, my hope was to find a way to not do that again and have prevention. I think that the microbiome is the answer to us trying to figure out how to create a world that we can live and thrive in, because it’s such an important organ; it’s the canary in the coal mine of the environment we’re interfacing with. So I think, without going on too long about my passion for the microbiome, in short, I was working in research, had an experience with a family member with cancer, became a naturopath and wanted to connect all the cool things I was learning in nutrition and preventative medicine with the chemistry and the cellular biology. And the microbiome really was that bridge for me.

Lindsey: 

I’ve also been fascinated with the microbiome for a long time. So I think I heard on another podcast maybe that your original hope had been to offer FMT on a wider scale or a purified FMT product on a broader scale, but that the FDA put the kibosh on that. Is that the case?

Andrea McBeth: 

Well, we have been doing FMT for C. diff that was not responding to therapies for a long time. There was always a hope that we could understand mechanistically what it was about FMT that was so special, and address the infectious disease risk, scalability and some of the other things that were the limiter for using this really powerful tool, because you can provide FMT to a C. diff patient who isn’t responding to antibiotics, and their lives change in 24 to 36 hours. It’s not just that their diarrhea goes away– they feel better, they have less fatigue, and there’s all these really fascinating gut-brain axis components. The autism study that came out of ASU in 2017 and the follow up in 2019 was really profound for us and our practice. So people would call us and ask us and we would have to say, “no, it’s not accessible.”

We work with nutrition in support of things all the time as functional gastroenterologists, and it was really a moment of “what if it’s not just the bacteria or phages or viruses?” Maybe there’s another component of compost in the secret sauce of FMT that is safe and really is a food derivative or is like a probiotic, that we could provide patients in a different setting in a different way, change the paradigm and look left when everybody was really focused on what were the good bacteria and the bad bacteria. And so I think for us, it was just a moment of, well, what if theoretically, it was the small molecules? And then COVID happened, and then we couldn’t provide FMT because we couldn’t screen for COVID. That was a really good reason to put the poop in the autoclave. And so that’s kind of how it started. From there, we’ve gone down this path of developing something that is safe, tested, food-derived and fits more into this classification of dietary supplement. So there’s another tool in the toolbox to modulate the microbiome in the same way that early probiotics were brought to the market.

Lindsey: 

So when did it come on the market?

Andrea McBeth: 

So we’ve been providing it as a pilot through clinical practice for a few years, and relatively recently, in the last year, it’s a physician-only dietary supplement that’s on the market.

Lindsey: 

Okay. So I didn’t get a straight answer though, in the sense of, was there a conversation with the FDA about about wider stool transplant distribution, and did they reject the idea?

Andrea McBeth: 

Well, I think I’ve been to most of the conferences and listened to FDA Q and A’s and had a couple off the record conversations and the clear articulation was infectious disease risk is a concern, and that makes logical sense. When I pitched things like, well, “what if we did autologous FMT?” They’re like, nope, that’s definitely still FMT. And then I said, well what if we autoclave it and look at it like food, they were like, great, go do that. That’s going to be really helpful. That’s not a thing that we’re concerned with anymore because you’ve eliminated that component of concern in the infectious disease.

Lindsey: 

Yeah, I think that whole situation in the US is very frustrating to a lot of people. I just went on the web and searched a little bit. There was a study, I think, of more than 5000 courses of FMT, in which there was a total of five deaths, and I think most of those could have been prevented if there have been proper donor screening.

Andrea McBeth: 

I mean, I’ve always been fascinated with FMT. It works no matter who your donor is, so it can’t be this one magic bacteria. There’s got to be something about it that’s modulating the ecosystem. And I’m really excited about the Rebiotix product that’s out on the market, and we’ve shifted to using that clinically for C. diff, the approved by FMT enema they have.

Lindsey: 

Oh, I’m not familiar with it.

Andrea McBeth: 

Rebiotix is the first approved stool-derived FMT for C. diff. It’s on the market and insurances are starting to cover it; it’s huge that it’s now available. So we’re not going to do FMT anymore clinically for C diff. But Thaenabiotic is a bridge. It’s like the next generation in probiotics. It’s not fecal transplant, and I want to be really clear about that, but it came from that idea of observing what was happening in FMT, thinking about how the microbiome is signaling health through these small molecules, and what if we could take a snapshot of a healthy donor and would that impact a recipient who has dysbiosis or doesn’t have those good bacteria? You’re not engrafting or causing trouble necessarily with giving somebody something that you can’t get rid of or could cause an infection, but you are providing that complex ecology that some people have, that others, just because of the way they were born, their environment, their diet, or their antibiotic exposure, don’t have access to.

Right. So let’s talk about some of those postbiotics. So what are the different types of postbiotics that are found in Thaenabiotic?

Andrea McBeth: 

Yeah, it’s really hard for me to choose my favorite. So every day, I find myself with like a different list, but the broad classifications are a good place to start. So short-chain fatty acids, as you mentioned, are a really good category, because butyrate is well characterized, and has a ton of benefits. It’s a really interesting molecule because it does things that provide energy, but it’s also an HDAC [histone deacetylase] inhibitor, right? So it changes the way that genes are read, there are good things about acetate, propionate. But then, if you have them out of balance–or there’s some data that shows if you have too much of one–it might be a bad thing, right. But broadly, they’re really interesting because they’re sort of the powerhouse of the energy of the metabolism.

And then there’s things like indoles and tryptophan derivatives that are in lower percentages, but they bind T-cell receptors. There’s all this interesting work being done looking at how these small molecules can make profound impact, even at low concentrations, throughout the body by interfacing with our immune cells that sit at that Peyer’s patch in our gut. That mucus layer keeps the bacteria out, but these small molecules are transferring across the mucus layer and across the epithelium into the blood, into the lymphatic and interfacing with those. There’s other groups like the sphingolipids. The reservoir of our sphingolipids are housed in the microbiome, and they get broken down and then rebuilt in the cell walls throughout our body and our brain. I’m really excited for the future of research in the microbiome to start to look at where do all these molecules that the bacteria make get distributed throughout our body? And so I think those ones are really interesting. There’s medium-chain fatty acids, there’s bile acids. I don’t know if you have a group of post-biotics that are your favorite, but…

Lindsey: 

Doesn’t everyone?

Andrea McBeth: 

Yeah–ornithine and citrulline. I have a running list of my favorites that are in our product. Someday, I’m going to write a synopsis with my team.

Lindsey: 

I think what you need is a one-a-day calendar, you know, you just tear off the page.

Andrea McBeth: 

But I do think we have this treasure trove of small molecules that we’ve been coevolving with since the beginning of time that we haven’t looked at yet. And it turns out, they’re hormones. They bind and interface with our whole body in the same way that hormones from other organs do. And it makes sense, because the microbiome is kind of like a hormone organ that we just never saw and didn’t know what’s there. But feel free to keep me reined in, because I get really excited about the wonky chemistry. The big picture step away is that a healthy microbiome is making a huge diversity of small molecules that are being used to transmit signals throughout the body and interface with all the different parts of our organs, not just the other microbes.

Lindsey: 

Yeah, so where is Thaenabiotic meant to start dissolving? In the small intestine?

Andrea McBeth: 

So, we put it in a capsule to get it enteric coated, but the powder, if you open the capsule up and take it orally, it still seems to work. I think a component of that is that these small molecules aren’t just working locally in the colon; they are signaling molecules that get absorbed into systemic circulation. And that was a pretty big paradigm shift even just a year ago. But now, there is evidence that bacterial drug metabolites are in our serum, and that is a part of the mechanism of how the microbiome is interfacing. So I think it’s actually not as important where these get delivered as long as they’re getting delivered to the GI tract. There is a component of the Thaenabiotic that is insoluble fiber and those prebiotics, but it’s a very small amount. So it’s not like taking a prebiotic supplement with like, 10 grams of ‘whatever’.

Lindsey: 

Right, and you said it’s 100 milligrams worth of product. So just thinking comparatively, the butyrate supplement I created is 750 milligrams of butyrate alone. So it would only be a very small portion of any one thing–it’s just a combo of a bunch of things the bacteria would be producing. I’m just curious, because somebody said at one point, I can’t recall if it was on my podcast or in some other context, “we’re absorbing all our nutrients in the small intestine and then only water in the large intestine.” But yeah, you’re nodding, no. And I’m thinking, yeah, that doesn’t make any sense with what you’re telling me because other than the short-chain fatty acids that may be feeding the lining of the large intestine, there, obviously, are other molecules that are being absorbed from the large intestine.

Andrea McBeth: 

So that statement is true in our old paradigm of free microbiome nutrition, right? So if you were thinking about metabolism from a human-centric space, without any accommodation for the reality of this extra organ system of the microbiome, yes, that’s true. Our nutrients that are digested–I like to think of the GI tract, mouth to anus as an orchestra–so a component gets digested when you chew, and our salivary glands secrete things that help with digestion, and then you get stomach acid, HCl in the stomach that digests and breaks things down, and then a component like the amino acids get absorbed in the small intestine. So in our digestion and metabolism, things get absorbed. But there’s all kinds of stuff happening in the colon that’s related to microbiome metabolism that wasn’t included in that paradigm before.

Now, we have to really ask what we thought we knew and reassess how metabolism works in human health with the context of what the microbiome is contributing to the system, because a calorie in is not a calorie out. We’ve seen that with the work done in fecal transplant and my studies. We know, thanks to the Weizmann Institute and fecal transplant studies they’ve done in Israel, that my blood sugar response to rice and tomatoes may be completely different than yours, because our microbiomes are changing the way things get metabolized and impact blood sugar response. So I love that this product is intuitively contrary to the traditional paradigm, but the fact that it does anything is kind of a miracle and a testament, similar to how FMT was originally, that the microbiome is so much more important than we thought it was.

Lindsey: 

So what kinds of conditions or symptoms are people trying Thaenabiotic for?

Andrea McBeth: 

I think our framing of it as a dietary supplement very intentionally is to not treat disease. But we are piggybacking on the work that has been done, looking at how microbiome not being healthy can impact many symptoms and aspects of life. You can think about how our GI system works. It’s really interesting to see this impact motility, which is the way that our gut moves poop through the system and helps people have more frequent bowel movements. But it also makes people have less loose bowel movements, in some circumstances.

And the other place that we’re really interested is that it seems to impact fatigue and how people feel in their brain, which kind of makes sense when you think about the gut/brain access and all the evidence we have from fecal transplants and the role that probiotics and nutrition can play. We are very much at the beginning stages of working with physicians and functional medicine doctors to ask the question, “does your patient have a dysbiotic microbiome? And could they be missing some of this basic signaling because their ecosystem is depleted?” And if so, would this super-nutrient impact that? The general response is that, yes, it does seem to be a super multivitamin that can help rebalance some of those things that are caused by a lack of, not a certain species per se, but the metabolism that some of those important species are doing to make something like butyrate, which, for example, is pretty well covered and at a high concentration, but that same idea applies to other lower concentration and really important molecules, like the indoles, or any of the amino acid derivatives and specialty bile acids.

Lindsey: 

Yeah, I think that’s the follow up question that I was thinking of when you were talking about where absorption is happening. As you mentioned, l-citrulline is an amino acid, but I guess it’s not an essential amino acid. It’s derived from arginine.

Andrea McBeth: 

This is where I apologize if it’s too much philosophy, but I come back to this concept of how we evolved as an archaea and a bacteria being endosymbiosed. And if you think about human and eukaryotic multicellular organisms, we have not been around very long. Bacteria were here way before us for much longer. So we just hijacked the metabolism of bacteria and copied it for our own purposes. And so it makes total sense that in the same way, we think about human cellular metabolism–breaking down amino acids, taking things from food and all that stuff–bacteria are doing the same thing. They are interacting with these molecules at all the different steps of the biochemical pathways that we traditionally think of as a human cell pathway. They’re breaking apart amino acids, adding things to them, changing bile acids and breaking apart fats. You’re ending up with this really complex milieu of intermediate molecules that, again, are similar to what we think of as traditional human biochemistry pathways, like the Krebs cycle and things like that. But that’s mitochondrial remnants of our bacterial cells themselves, so that is all happening on the bacterial level within the microbiome. It’s a sea of all these nutrients that are used for all kinds of things,

Lindsey: 

Just in case people are having trouble absorbing what we’re actually talking about, I want to kind of condense this down. So basically, what you’ve done is you’ve taken FMT, you’ve killed the bacteria, and now you’ve put it into a pill. That pill is full of all the stuff that the bacteria were already doing in a healthy colon. But if you don’t have a healthy colon or healthy microbiome in your colon, you’re not doing all those things, and you’re not producing all those things. Maybe you’re producing some of those things because everybody still has some bacteria left, but you’re not producing all of them. And so now in one pill, you get a mixture of everything that a healthy person’s microbiome would be producing.

Andrea McBeth: 

Yeah, we think about it like an ecosystem. So it’s the entire ecosystem instead of one or two culture derivatives. So if you have a postbiotic from lactobacillus, that’s like a subset of postbiotics. This is the entire ecosystem of a healthy human. Instead of using a kombucha to ferment, you’re using a colon to ferment. They’re the same basic idea, it’s just that one is much more complex than the other.

Lindsey: 

Yeah. So I know, obviously, you have to avoid the health claims, but I’m just wondering if there are any anecdotal stories from users or reviews…?

Andrea McBeth: 

Unfortunately, not.

Lindsey: 

Are the reviews up on the website, though?

Andrea McBeth: 

I mean, we’re the only people autoclaving poops that are being really conscientious about this being something that is to support microbiome health. We have some really interesting data in longevity and longevity is not a health claim. So that’s really fun. We have a C. elegans model, which is a little worm that researchers use to study. There’s a bunch of genes that they have that we have, and there’s some analogy. So they’re a really nice model, because they’re easy to use, and they’re well characterized. What’s interesting is we have looked in C. elegans; we can make them live longer and wiggle and they’re more vital, and their health spans better, even compared to rapamycin, which is a really common longevity drug, and resveratrol, which is what we think of when we think of red wine being good for you or polyphenols. So Thaenabiotic works better than those in the C. elegans model for making them wiggle longer. And then when we look at the genes, it’s doing things related to oxidative stress and mitochondrial health. And so by proxy, you think about everything in our body that’s related to oxidative stress. This is a really potent antioxidant. That’s another framework for us to start to think about how we can support patients with things that are happening with them on a nutrition level to support antioxidant or oxidative stress.

I was really excited. I didn’t expect to have data come back from the RNA sequence we did, which is a way of looking at the genes in the worms. When we gave them the antibiotic, it really impacts their mitochondrial genes, which is, again, the powerhouse of cells, and they’re bathing in it, which is different than us eating it. But when we think about mitochondrial health, longevity and “inflamm-aging” if you want to make up a word that is thrown around a lot, that’s all related to oxidative stress and mitochondrial health. Again, with mitochondrial bacteria, whenever I hear longevity, people talk about mitochondria, just copy and paste that into microbiome. They’re the same thing.

Lindsey: 

Do you have any clinical trials planned or underway?

Andrea McBeth: 

We’ve got an IRB approval to work with these partner physicians in open black box observational pre/post testing and clinical data collection. So we’re at the really early stages of case studies and case reports kind of like Dr. Bredesen did with the Alzheimer’s work, where our hope is, we can collect enough data to then write the grants to fund real clinical trials. We’ve written many, we just don’t have the money to fund them.

Lindsey: 

There’s not a placebo in this case?

Andrea McBeth: 

No. It would be great to do a placebo-controlled study, early on that was like our first proposal, but we’re a small startup. We really are optimistic with the C. elegans data, that we’ll be able to start to write grants. And if we have enough clinical case observations, we might be able to fund a proper pilot study. We have not yet, but we are very hopeful. Anecdotal data is what it is. It has some value, but it’s limited. And I’ll be the first to admit, from the early days, I was like, “is there any way that this is actually doing something?”, and it’s taken me many years to be convinced that something as small as 100 milligrams of sterilized poop powder from a healthy person would significantly impact people. But there does seem to be a set of really strong responders. There are people that it does nothing for, but the people for whom it shifts stuff, it definitely makes a significant impact in the way that a dietary supplement that’s effectively utilized really can change people’s lives. So I’m cautiously optimistic, we’re going to keep learning.

Lindsey: 

Yeah. So I think then the assumption would be that if you already had a super healthy microbiome, and you were doing everything great that it probably wouldn’t be a big benefit to you. It’s more for people who have a dysbiotic microbiome.

Andrea McBeth: 

Yeah, the longevity data is so interesting. Before we had that, I would say “don’t take things for the sake of taking things” in general, and “eat food as medicine” has always been my mantra. But there’s something about a healthy microbiome for somebody like me that I can’t get anywhere else. So it does seem to help just as a baseline, for me to take it every day as a supplement in the same way that I tried to eat vegetables, but I was born via C-section, I have chronic disease, so I’m like a whole host of things. Even though I’m not acutely ill, this seems to be a support. I think the cost-benefit conversation is there no matter what we’re talking about, like, “is it better to go get a massage or try a new supplement?” I mean, I think that’s an individual decision on cost-benefit. But it’s nice as a clinician to have this as a tool in my toolbox.

Lindsey: 

Thinking about the cost-benefit analysis and long term supplementation, I think the frustration that a lot of people have with gut-based treatments, especially if they have some kind of a condition like I do, post-infectious IBS, where I’m going to have this for life likely, is, of course, that you have to do it indefinitely in order to get results. So I’m just wondering what you think the expected course of treatment for Thaenabiotic would be, and if people can get off of it, not perhaps if they’re using it for longevity, but say they’re using it for diarrhea or constipation or bloating or something like that?

Andrea McBeth: 

Yeah, totally. We have asked that question from day one. And what we’ve observed so far based on anecdotal and several thousand patients trying this is that you have to take it for at least a month, a few months, sometimes six to nine months. And like all things, it depends how you got there, right? If it’s 20 years that led you to something acute, that’s different than if you had diarrhea traveling. But it does seem to shift the microbiome enough or impact the neural immune modulation enough that you don’t need it anymore. And so people will try it for a while, stop it if their symptoms come back, then try it a little bit longer. It’s in increments of 30 capsules per month dose, and then we have a 90 cap bottle that’s three months. So in general, after three to four months, if it’s working and helping, try it for that long, go off of it, and then hopefully you’re at the point where whatever the underlying issue is, you’re more tolerant of food, you have more diversity in your microbiome, your immune system is less reactive, and your motility is better. You don’t have to keep on it indefinitely.

That said, we do have a handful of patients that have been on it for a really long time or they go off of it, but then they keep it around for acute flares. My business partner and I were asked one time, “is it for benders or is it for prevention?” I said benders, and she said prevention at the same time. So it’s great if you want to be resilient in the world to have a pizza and a beer, but that’s not something you normally can tolerate. At the same time, you can approach it the way my business partner does, where it’s a prevention thing. I think it just depends, again, on that cost-benefit and where people are at. It’s not something that you have to take indefinitely because the microbiome is such a dynamic environment, that if you can get it back into a state of balance with the immune system interface, that’s my theoretical position; we’re reducing the leaky gut, histamine, etc., enough that you can then be maintained and at a better place. So when you think about functional medicine, your patients, my patients and our own IBS, you can get to a place where you’re good and then you plateau. Then you don’t have a tool, you’re doing everything right.

Lindsey: 

But you’re still having diarrhea every month or week or so. Yeah, I’ve certainly heard that with a lot of people.

Andrea McBeth: 

And then you try something like this that’s another tool that gets you to the next place. It gets you off that plateau, or it helps you be resilient to that next perturbation. Like all the other tools in our toolbox, it’s not going to be a magic bullet or one-size-fits-all. It’s definitely not FMT, but it does have something in it that’s a little bit different than traditional food or herbal or probiotic supplements. It’s just a complex mixture of stuff that we couldn’t really synthesize any other way.

Lindsey: 

How did you settle on the 100 milligram dose?

Andrea McBeth: 

We tried high dosing. Originally, we tried to mimic FMT exactly and just autoclaved an FMT dose and it just didn’t seem to do as much. I’ve had a couple really interesting conversations about this. So you think about FMT, and its mechanism is probably a combination of the bacteriaphages, (the viruses within our gut that infect other bacteria), bacterial engraftment, fungal, and postbiotics. Of all of those, postbiotics are going to be working at a low and slow dosage, as opposed to phages, which are a big, strong punch short term. What we found is after we autoclave and all that stuff is dead, all that’s left are these small molecules. High doses don’t seem to have any added benefit, but low doses over time do seem to shift stuff. So we tapered people down and saw where you could still get benefit, not really have any side effects and then maintain dosing, and that’s how we got there. I would love to do a proper, controlled dosing study. But I think for us, we were at 50 milligrams for a long time, and then we increased it to 100 milligrams, because of that trade off of like, “would a little bit more help?” Sometimes patients take two caps, but I’ve definitely taken 10 or 30 caps at a time, and it just doesn’t seem to do anything extra. We tried that with patients in the early days, and it didn’t seem to do anything, so we moved away from that recommendation strategy.

Lindsey: 

Okay, interesting. So I understand that you’re sending me a bottle, so I can give it a try. I’ll have some time before I publish so I’ll be sure to include in my exit comments what happened and how it impacted me. I’m excited to try that.

Andrea McBeth: 

Yeah, I would say some of the interesting things we have observed is that it’s very mild. Generally, the biggest concern people have is that it does nothing. We’re working towards a money back guarantee so you could try it for 30 days. And if it doesn’t do anything, you don’t spend a bunch of money. But hopefully by the time this goes live, we’ll have that set up. And then there are a small set of side effects people have reported, because we have an adverse event reporting, is people who have constipation. This can cause transient cramping as their gut starts to move, but it doesn’t last very long. So it’s like, day three to five people will get an increase in motility and report cramping.

We’ve had some people report an increase of stomach acid, which was great in the context of turning that orchestra on, especially if you’ve had chronic IBS and dysregulated GI nervous system patterning. I have patients that take tons of HCl and digestive enzymes. If we could just get that turned back on organically, and not have to take all that supplemental support with every meal, that’s great. So that’s actually giving us some hints towards what the mechanism might be, with motility and gastrin. I have a lot of scientific research questions that someday I’ll have money to answer.

Lindsey: 

Yeah, if only our system worked a little bit differently so that these new, interesting things got research funding.

Andrea McBeth: 

Maybe there’s some of your listeners that are researchers that want to do collaborations with us. We would love to do more academic collaborations. I will ship poop powder to anybody who wants to throw it on their in-vitro models.

Lindsey: 

And I will include a link in the show notes where you can get it. I signed up as a provider, so if you get it by contacting me, you’ll be supporting the podcast. Are there any other things you want to mention or places to go or links?

Andrea McBeth: 

I’m happy to share. We’re really trying to create a microbiome education system around this. In particular, if you’re a provider and you sign up, we have tons of continuing education content. We are building the newsletters and the ecosystem type things that you do.  I’m happy to share my Twitter, which is where I bookmark all my microbiome studies. But I’ve always been really passionate about teaching about the microbiome and how our health, our decisions and the environment around us impact it. So I would love to hear from people and you can reach out to me through Twitter. It’s @DreMcBeth, my name is Andrea Macbeth, I’ll send that to you too. I appreciate the time and the space! I love your podcast. Like when I started googling podcast/fecal transplant many years ago, it was always great to listen to your interviews because it’s such a cool paradigm shift to be a part of, right?

Lindsey: 

I mean, those are some of the funnest ones because, obviously FMT doesn’t work for everybody, but for the people for whom it works, it’s miraculous in what it can do. I wish it were more accessible, but I’m pretty excited about your product and how that might be a substitute for FMT for people who are struggling.

Andrea McBeth: 

Yeah, and check out Rebiotix, the REBYOTA product that is going to be on the market, hopefully Seres Therapeutics-approved relatively soon. There’s a company out of Australia that has a product approved in Europe called BiomeBank. So the tide has shifted. There are more of these out there. The US actually just approved a phase three trial for a company out of France called MaaT. They’re an FMT company that works specifically with cancer patients going through bone marrow transplants, and it’s amazing. Their data on this part of bone marrow transplants called Graft vs. Host disease is really incredible. So I’m optimistic–the last three years have been crazy, but hopefully we’ll start to see more and more tools for different people across different components of the spectrum.

Lindsey: 

Yeah, I’m excited for that too. Well, thank you so much for coming on and sharing about Thaenabiotic. Thank you so much.


If you’re struggling with  bloating, constipation, diarrhea, soft stool, acid reflux, IBS, IBD or any type of chronic disease, etc. and want to get to the bottom of it, that’s what I help my clients with. You’re welcome to set up a free, 30-minute breakthrough session with me (Lindsey). We’ll talk about what you’ve been going through and I’ll tell you about my 3- and 5- appointment health coaching programs in which I recommend lab tests, educate you on what the results mean and the protocols used by doctors to fix the problems revealed. Or if you’re ready to jump in right away or can just afford one appointment at a time, you can set up an 1-hour consultation with me. 

Schedule a breakthrough session now

Colon Cancer: A Deep Dive on Diet, the Microbiome and Colonoscopies

Colon Cancer: A Deep Dive on Diet, the Microbiome and Colonoscopies

Adapted from episode 102 of The Perfect Stool podcast hosted by Lindsey Parsons, EdD, Gut Health Coach, and edited for readability.


Today, I’m going to be talking all about colon cancer, its prevention, colonoscopies, endoscopies and diet changes to consider if you have a colon cancer diagnosis. I thought this topic might be important because I do see a number of clients who have gut health issues but haven’t yet been to see a gastroenterologist, so I wanted to highlight when and if that is recommended. 

One of the most prevalent health risks for men and women alike as they head into middle age is colon cancer. Colorectal cancers are the third-most-commonly diagnosed form of cancer in the United States and they typically begin with the benign growth of polyps in the colon or rectum. Polyps are an abnormal accumulation of tissue on the inner membrane of the large intestine (aka the colon), which, again, are not cancerous from their inception. However, if left unattended for months or years on end, these polyps can mutate into cancerous growths and become colon cancer. 

What are some symptoms of colon cancer?

Symptoms of colon cancer include persistent changes in bowel movements, including constipation, diarrhea and narrow stools, rectal bleeding or dark brown or black stool from bleeding coming from further up in the intestines, a feeling of incomplete elimination, chronic abdominal pain or cramping, unexplained weight loss, unexplained anemia, or even fatigue and general weakness. Unfortunately, once you’ve moved from benign polyp to symptomatic colon cancer, you may already have metastasized cancer cells in your colon, which would necessitate a more severe line of treatment. However, if caught at an early stage, polyps can be removed, and then there are many diet and lifestyle changes you can implement that contribute to staving off colon cancer. So it’s important, before attacking any functional GI issues with a functional medicine provider or a gut health coach like me, to get screened for colon cancer with a gastroenterologist if you’ve had any symptoms like the ones I just mentioned. 

How can I prevent colon cancer?

In the past half century, western diets have become increasingly conducive to developing colon cancer and other malignant conditions in our GI tract. Foods high in saturated fats, sugar, and processed meats are the biggest known culprits of colon cancer in our diets.   Because cancer-causing foods have become so prevalent in many Americans’ diets–this link between nutrition and GI tract cancer may be partially responsible for the staggering rate of increase in young adults developing these conditions. Diagnoses of advanced stage colorectal cancer in people under 55 years of age grew from 11% in 1995 to 20% in 2019, which means one in five people under 55 will have this diagnosis. 

Standard nutritional advice often puts red meat in the same category as processed meat as a colon cancer risk factor, but of course I draw a distinction between grassfed or pastured-raised meats and conventionally-raised beef and lamb, which is used in the research comparing diets including red meat, especially if it’s done in the US. And in fact, in the World Health Organization paper that examined 800 studies to determine the likely carcinogens in our diets (and the nearly 500 page monograph based on it) determined that while the risk was elevated for both processed and red meat, they could not rule out chance, bias, or confounding variables because no association was found between colorectal cancer and red meat in several of the larger studies. Furthermore, they also found that cancer risk was likely mediated by cooking methods, such as pan frying, which was associated with an increased risk of colorectal cancer in one of the larger studies. 

You may have heard of TMAO or trimethylamine N-oxide as something that’s found in red meat (meaning beef, pork and lamb) as well as eggs and dairy products that contributes to colon cancer. What you may not have heard is that salt-water fish and shellfish also are very high in TMAO but are supposed to be good for us. So what gives? What actually is in red meat, eggs, and dairy are l-carnitine, choline, betaine and lecithin, the precursors to a substance called trimethylamine or TMA. Your microbiome converts these precursors into TMA, which is then taken up by the liver and converted to TMAO, which increases colorectal cancer cell proliferation and angiogenesis, or the development of new blood vessels which feed cancer cells. And TMAO has also been associated with other inflammatory conditions, including heart disease, chronic kidney disease, liver disease and type 2 diabetes. 

And because TMAO is produced from substances in meat like l-carnitine, which is an amino acid that’s particularly high in beef and lamb, people who eat vegetarian or vegan diets don’t have the microbes that take part in this conversion, so will produce less TMAO in response to eating the same foods as omnivores. A 2014 study found a positive correlation between colorectal cancer risk and higher TMAO levels. But before you jump to the conclusion that one should avoid red meats entirely, I have to warn you that I see many clients on vegan or vegetarian diets or who eat exclusively fish and poultry who are either having trouble losing weight or suffering from fatigue. I run an Organic Acids Test on them and lo and behold, they have elevated markers that indicate that they are not bringing fats in their diets into the Krebs cycle to produce energy. The reason is usually because they are deficient in l-carnitine (which in addition to being found primarily in red meats is also made by the body from the essential amino acids lysine and methionine). They may also be deficient in vitamin B2, which along with l-carnitine is necessary to bring fats into the Krebs cycle for the production of energy. So when you have a deficiency in one of these nutrients, this means is that after the carbs and protein from a given meal run out, you have no way to use up your stores of fat for energy, resulting in fatigue and fat accumulation. And so what I do for those people teach them about supplements that will help restore the proper functioning of the beta oxidation or metabolism of fats: l-carnitine and a B complex, and when they use those, the fatigue turns around quite quickly. So the message here may be that the poison is in the dose when it comes to red meat.  

And to return to seafood, unlike red meat that just contains TMAO precursors, seafood actually is one of the highest sources of free TMAO as well as TMAO precursors. TMAO is what helps fish stay buoyant by acting like antifreeze and protecting proteins in their tissues–hence, deep-sea fish and shellfish are higher in TMAO. And that fishy smell from seafood is the smell of the conversion of TMAO into TMA. One study found that TMAO levels in the blood were significantly higher following consumption of seafood versus beef or eggs, 62 times higher in fact. Given how healthy seafood has been shown to be, it’s not totally clear whether TMAO is a sign of inflammatory conditions or the result of it. 

And to add some complexity to the story, all this is mediated by the microbiome, so high producers of TMAO have a higher ratio of Firmicutes to Bacteroidetes, typically 2:1 versus 1:1 for low producers. In addition, the high TMAO producers often had no archaea, which you may be familiar with as the kingdom which includes methane producing bacteria like Methanobrevibacter smithii and Methanosphaera stadtmanae, which are overgrown in IMO or intestinal methanogen overgrowth, which causes bloating and constipation. So these archaea actually convert TMA and TMAO into methane, decreasing TMAO in the gut. Unfortunately, I’m one of these people who have no archaea in my gut. But the exciting news is that some scientists are proposing archaeabiotics as a new type of probiotic to help reduce TMAO levels, which means that someone out there is likely working on this as their newest money-making venture. 

As I’ve observed when working with clients who have IMO or methanogen overgrowth, inevitably, diets rich in complex carbohydrates like beans and lentils and starchy vegetables (like vegan diets) increase archaea, whereas Methanobrevibacter abundance is negatively associated with recent fat consumption. And this isn’t because methanogens eat the carbs, as they don’t have the enzymes to do so, but rather that they eat the byproducts of carb consumption of other bacteria like Bifidobacteria bifidum, which has been shown to work with M smithii to produce methane from glucose. And it appears that people whose guts contain more methanogens also contain more Bifidobacteria, which are associated with a host of health benefits, including inhibiting pathogens, producing vitamins, regulating the immune system, repressing carcinogenic activity of other microbes, improving gut barrier function, improving glucose tolerance, reducing low-grade inflammation, and reducing endotoxemia resulting from high fat diets, as well as increasing longevity. Bifidobacteria also are helpful in reducing gas because they produce lactic acid, not gas, so higher Bifido levels lead to less gas and digestive issues. 

All this is to say that the microbiome is an important mediator of TMAO levels, and one of the best things you can do to make sure that your microbiome is rich in the archaea and bacteria that decrease TMAO is to eat a variety of complex carbohydrates and foods high in resistant starch, like starchy vegetables (and by that I don’t just mean potatoes, but sweet potatoes, root veggies and winter squash), and then resistant starch powerhouses like beans and lentils, as well as whole grains like brown rice, quinoa, millet, sorghum and buckwheat. It appears that the combination of resistant starch and other dietary complex carbs (as opposed to resistant starch supplementation alone) is important for getting fiber down to the distal colon or end of the colon where they promote the production of short-chain fatty acids like butyrate, which is protective against cancer. 

I should also mention that there are other substances in red meat and in cooking methods frequently used with meats that are connected with cancer development. This includes N-nitroso compounds (NOCs), whose effects can be mediated by eating green vegetables with your meat, heterocyclic amines from the char on red meats, which according to studies can be mediated by marinating and spicing up your meats with a variety of substances including turmeric, rosemary, Caribbean spice blends, honey, olive oil, lemon juice and garlic marinade, red wine marinade, as well as eating cruciferous vegetables along with your meat. So those are some dietary interventions for being able to eat your red meat in a safe way, but let me get back to conventional prevention methods for colorectal cancer.  

Along with diet changes, changes in your lifestyle that reduce stress have been correlated with reducing intestinal inflammation and lowered risk of developing colorectal cancer. These include meditation, yoga and/or regular exercise, spending time outside to take in Vitamin D, reducing electronic usage before bed, and getting adequate sleep, which is 7-9 hours a night for adults.

Supplements that are helpful in preventing and treating colon cancer include vitamin D3 combined with K2 (I like the Adapt Naturals one as it has the mk4 form of K2), curcumin (I like Curapro, available in my Fullscript Dispensary), resveratrol and quercetin. For the vitamin D, you want to get your levels to the 50-80 ng/mL level, which usually means taking 3000-5000 IU/day of D3. And I prefer the K2mk4 form of K2, which is the only form of K2 that our bodies produce endogenously (although the mk7 form is produced by our gut microbiome). 

And finally, I should mention that there is a marker on the GI Map Stool Test that can identify a risk for colon cancer, called beta glucuronidase, and when found, there are dietary and supplement interventions I can recommend to reduce it. Plus doing a functional medicine stool test to rule out and address any gut infections and correct a state of dysbiosis will reduce your risk of cancerous growths. 

When Should I Get a Colonoscopy?

Because of the high prevalence of colon cancer in the U.S., in tandem with the increasing rate of individuals developing colon cancer at a young age, many health practitioners are now recommending endoscopic colon screenings (also known as colonoscopies) at the age of 45. From that point forward, patients who do not have any polyps or abnormalities developing in their colon are advised to get follow-up colonoscopies every ten years. 

For individuals with risk factors that contribute to their likelihood of developing colon cancer, many healthcare professionals suggest screenings far earlier than they are typically done, as an extra preventative measure. Many risk factors are associated with genetics and hereditary traits, which ought to be considered on an individual basis when deciding whether to seek out a colon screening before the age of 45. These risk factors include an individual’s family history of colon cancer, inherited syndromes like Peutz-Jeghers Syndrome or polyposis, or even one’s racial or ethnic background, as people with African or Ashkenazi Jewish heritage are at an increased risk of developing colon cancer.

Other risk factors for colon cancer include Inflammatory Bowel Disease (or IBD), Type 2 Diabetes, and other diseases with implications on gastrointestinal health. Studies have also highlighted the connection between insulin resistance in diabetic patients and the onset of colon polyps, whereby insulin-resistant cells in the colon begin the process of carcinogenesis, consequently leading to full-blown colon cancer if left untreated. Some lifestyle factors that put individuals at a high colorectal cancer risk include over-eating/obesity, smoking and heavy alcohol use. Smoking in particular has been noted as a significant risk factor for colon cancer, as the chemicals found in cigarettes are known to release free radicals and spurn on DNA damage, creating cell damage and mutations, which can lead to polyp overgrowth.

The reality of colorectal cancer is that many people in the early stages of the disease will be asymptomatic. So it is all the more essential that you get a preventative colonoscopy or endoscopy even before symptoms arise if you’ve hit 45 or earlier if you have risk factors, but even more important if you are having symptoms and have never had these procedures. 

What are colonoscopies and endoscopies?

The general procedure for testing for colon cancer and other GI tract conditions are generally known as endoscopies because they are done with an endoscope, which is a thin, flexible tube with a light and a camera at its tip to look inside the body. If you’re looking at the esophagus, stomach and duodenum, or the first part of the small intestine, it’s called an upper endoscopy or esophagogastroduodenoscopy or EGD. If you’re looking at the colon, it’s called a colonoscopy.  Endoscopic procedures map out a certain area of the gastrointestinal tract using an endoscope inserted through the mouth for an EGD, or through the rectum for a colonoscopy. Endoscopies can surveil your entire GI tract, looking for abnormalities anywhere from the esophagus down to the rectum. The endoscope allows doctors to capture real-time images of the internal structures on a video monitor. 

Before a colonoscopy, your doctor will have you consume a bowel prep kit to completely empty your bowels the day beforehand. These will include osmotic laxatives and electrolyes to keep you from getting dehydrated. 

For low-risk individuals, rather than jumping straight to colonoscopies, there is the Cologuard option, which is a much less invasive stool DNA test for colon cancer. It’s not advised for high-risk individuals, including people who have IBD or a family history of colorectal cancer. And according to GI Alliance, Cologuard can miss up to 8% of colon cancer and more than 50% of pre-cancerous polyps, so you need to take that into account.  I chose to do a Cologuard instead of a colonoscopy when I turned 50 but decided I’ll go ahead with a colonoscopy soon now that it’s been 3 years, the interval for repeating Cologuard, just to be safe, since I since learned one of my parents had had a polyp found on a colonoscopy. 

Upper endoscopies or EGDs look for cancerous and precancerous growths in the esophagus, which is called Barrett’s esophagus in the esophagus, and in the stomach or upper intestines. They also look for gastritis or inflammation of the lining of the stomach, ulcers, narrowing of the esophagus, blockages, and can include biopsies for celiac disease and H pylori. An upper endoscopy can help to find the causes for heartburn, trouble swallowing, excessive burping, bleeding, nausea and vomiting, pain and unexplained weight loss. 

What diets do functional medicine practitioners recommend for colon cancer? 

Functional medicine approaches colon cancer from a holistic perspective, aiming to address the root causes of the disease and the terrain, which is like thinking about the soil rather than the individual plant, rather than solely focusing on killing cancer cells and symptom management. 

Three possible dietary changes that functional medicine practitioners may recommend to those with early-stage colorectal cancer (in addition to treatments like chemotherapy, immunotherapy, or surgery, that address the cancer directly) are low-carb diets, anti-inflammatory diets and ketogenic diets. Anti-inflammatory diets aim to limit foods that induce chronic inflammation in the intestines, thus lowering your risk of developing malignant growths and mutant cells in your intestinal lining. This involves eliminating refined sugar, refined oils, gluten, processed meat, among many other foods (that tend to be high in saturated and trans fats). Alternatively, these diets promote fruits and vegetables, fermented foods, grass-fed animal products and healthy fats, like those found in olives and avocados. 

Low-carb diets would eliminate many of the same foods and can go hand in hand with anti-inflammatory diets, with the extra restriction of only having 35-50 grams of carbohydrates a day. 

Along similar lines, ketogenic diets promote a very low-carbohydrate diet that forces the body into the process of ketosis, in which the body acclimates to burning fat as a primary source of energy as opposed to readily available carbohydrates. A 2017 systematic review of ketogenic diets in animal models found that in nine of 13 studies that were eligible for inclusion a ketogenic diet inhibited malignant cell growth and increased survival time. This review included colon cancer and gastric cancers as well as 5 other types of cancer. However, there is no data yet on humans. This is likely mediated by the fact that ketogenic diets produce ketone bodies like beta-hydroxybutyrate, which can substitute for butyrate produced by the microbiome when it ferments carbohydrates, which is protective against colon cancer.

If you do choose a ketogenic diet, you should do it carefully with the help of an experienced ketogenic diet coach or other practitioner as there are many potential adverse side effects and some people just do not tolerate super high levels of fat in their diet, which is required on a ketogenic diet in the range of 70% of calories. 

A well-studied alternative to ketogenic dieting is intermittent fasting, which has been identified as a good counterpart to those undergoing chemotherapy for colorectal cancer. Cycles with short periods of fasting have been found to reduce malignant tumor growth. Typically, functional medicine practitioners will advise that you align your fasting period with your sleep schedule, in which case, you may fast from after dinner through to breakfast or lunch the following day, and this may be scheduled in particular in advance of chemo treatments and will reduce the damage that the chemicals given to you have on your own cells. Based on an individual’s ability to tolerate periods of fasting in their daily routine, they can certainly fine-tune their fasting schedule to assure that they aren’t compromising their health or their ability to work, exercise, and otherwise feel sufficiently fueled throughout the day. These partial fasting methods may involve working caloric drinks into your fasting periods to tide you over and limit sensations of fatigue. If you’re dealing with cancer, I’d recommend listening to my episode 26 with Nasha Winters from July 30, 2020. We get into fasting schedules and interacting with chemo on that episode. 

I wanted to mention colonoscopies and endoscopies as an important step for people with new and persistent gut and bowel issues, so if you haven’t yet seen a gastroenterologist, I’d recommend making an appointment and going through that process before seeking out functional medicine interventions. 

If you’re struggling with  bloating, constipation, diarrhea, soft stool, acid reflux, IBS, IBD or any type of chronic disease, etc. and want to get to the bottom of it, that’s what I help my clients with. You’re welcome to set up a free, 30-minute breakthrough session with me (Lindsey). We’ll talk about what you’ve been going through and I’ll tell you about my 3- and 5- appointment health coaching programs in which I recommend lab tests, educate you on what the results mean and the protocols used by doctors to fix the problems revealed. Or if you’re ready to jump in right away or can just afford one appointment at a time, you can set up an 1-hour consultation with me. 

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