Adapted from episode 49 of The Perfect Stool podcast and edited for readability.
Lindsey:
Let me start off by having you give our readers some background on what you were first complaining about when you came to see me, your major health complaints and how long they’ve been going on.
Ann Marie:
Right. When I first contacted you, I had severe constipation. That got progressively worse over a four-and-a-half-year period. And I had done some research online because traditional medical treatments could not diagnose what my problem was. And it was getting more difficult to have a normal life with this problem that was continuing.
Lindsey:
And what kind of practitioners had you seen before me to try and get help?
Ann Marie:
I went to my MD and then she sent me to a specialist. I’m sorry, I cannot recall the specialty…
Lindsey:
Was it a gastroenterologist?
Ann Marie:
Yes, that is correct. And I went to actually two or three different ones over the four-and-a-half-year period, and followed their criteria for colonoscopies, CAT scans, and to no avail. I could not get an answer for what was causing my continual constipation and intestinal upset.
Lindsey:
So, beyond the constipation itself, what were the symptoms that you were experiencing?
Ann Marie:
So, the constipation, as you suffer through that process, it takes away your energy. I found that my mood was a bit depressed a lot, because things were not processing properly. I spent a lot of time cooking fresh vegetables and buying fresh fish and trying to eat as much as I could organically. And my body was not responding. So it was extremely frustrating. And without a diagnosis, I had all these visions that it was something far more severe than then what I knew it to be after we started working together.
Lindsey:
Were you having stomach pain and bloating as well?
Ann Marie:
Yes, absolutely. There was bloating, definitely pain. It was to the point where I was taking ibuprofen, two or three 200 milligrams to ease the discomfort in my gut. So, there was a lot going on. And I didn’t know how to separate out the different symptoms. That’s one of the things that you had helped me with when we started working together. What was causing the different symptoms.
Lindsey:
And what kinds of treatments did the gastroenterologists suggest?
Ann Marie:
Basically, they put me on over-the-counter fiber supplements and stool softeners. And, you know, things like milk of magnesia, which were not solving the problem. What happened by the time I met you, my bowels were not moving, the over-the-counter treatments were not working. So, it was extremely frustrating. And they offered me a prescription to resolve the constipation with no diagnosis. And that was extremely difficult. I could not do that. So, I kept searching. I really wish I had known somebody who had gone through the process, because that would have encouraged me to make the jump and try a holistic approach to solving my issues.
Lindsey:
And you had an actual IBS diagnosis though, didn’t you?
Ann Marie:
I did indeed. Right. I did.
Lindsey:
And my understanding was it was IBS-D or diarrhea first and then after menopause it turned into IBS-C. Is that right? Correct.
Ann Marie:
That is correct.
Lindsey:
And that was sort of within that four-and-a-half-year period? Or was it a little before then?
Ann Marie:
I would say a little bit longer than that when I had the diarrhea. It was on-going but it was more manageable, much more manageable. And then when I crossed over to menopause, I think things slowed down and my body obviously changed the hormonal changes and things got really, really difficult.
Lindsey:
Okay, so I don’t know if you recall when we first talked, so we had our first appointment, which is typical that I’ll have a first appointment with clients before any testing is done, and I taught you about some things that help to relieve constipation. Do you recall what those were?
Ann Marie:
I do not remember
Lindsey:
So, I think I think some of the first things and I don’t know if you necessarily did them all right off the bat, but one was vitamin C, another was magnesium and another was Atrantil (find in my Fullscript Dispensary).
Ann Marie:
Right. Yes. And I had already been taking magnesium. But based-on information from another nutritionist, she had suggested I take magnesium, but it wasn’t nearly enough. After working with you, you explained to me that the amount I was taking wasn’t really serving a purpose. So even though I was taking things like vitamin C, I was so far off the mark. I was not taking enough to resolve any of my issues. And I wouldn’t have known that without your help and assistance through the process.
Lindsey:
Yeah. And so, you had done the GI Map and the Organic Acids Test. And that’s a really big investment in testing, it is 700 plus dollars. So, I’m wondering, why was it worth it to you to spend that much, and in retrospect, was it a good decision?
Ann Marie:
Yes. I pay a good deal of money to my employer for my insurance premiums. And by the time I met you, I had spent close to $3,000 trying to figure out what this was in co-pays on tests and doctor’s appointments. And I was really feeling like, the only way to get back to somewhat normal existence was to invest in my health. And by taking those two tests, you had assured me that the tests were very revealing, in that we would get a lot of information. And I will tell you, I was very cynical initially, because traditional medicine couldn’t solve my problem. I really was a little bit cynical, like geez, is Lindsey really going to be able to help me? So, when I got the test results, and we reviewed them together, you were very thorough, and you went line by line explaining them to me. It was an emotional moment, because I actually had a clue to what was causing my severe issues. It was like a great relief, I finally had some answers.
Lindsey:
Yeah. So, on your GI Map, we found that you had H. pylori, which was under the levels considered normal, and some practitioners do believe that you can have H. pylori, and it can be a healthy commensal organism, if it doesn’t have the virulence factors that cause cancer and ulcers. And yours didn’t right, but we did decide that given your symptoms, that it was worth treating, because obviously, it’s one thing if you have no symptoms and have H. pylori; it’s another thing if you have terrible symptoms and have it. And then you also had high levels of clostridia, streptococcus, and Akkermansia muciniphila, which again, some of these are commensals. They’re good bacteria, but not when there’s too much of them. And then you had a high level of a protozoa called blastocysts hominis, which some practitioners treat as a parasite, but it’s also present in healthy people and more and more practitioners are leaving it alone. And then you also had low levels of pancreatic elastase 1, which indicates suppressed pancreatic function and likely low stomach acid, especially if you have H. pylori. And you also had low levels of Secretory IgA, which is our primary immune defense in the gut that helps maintain the microbiome and protect against the toxins that can come in with your food, including bacteria. And one of the main reasons that can go low is stress. And you’d been through an extended period of stress before that all began. Do you want to share a little bit about that?
Ann Marie:
Yeah, that’s correct. So along with continuing my full-time career as an art director, my mom became ill and the decision was made between my siblings and me to keep her home in hospice care. But she was a 45-minute drive away. We had around the clock care, along with staying at the house ourselves and caring for her for nearly two and a half years. So, we had the maintenance of the home plus the management of the caregivers, which basically fell on me. So along with trying to work and support myself and maintain a somewhat normal life, I also had the care of my mom, which was about 30 to 36 hours a week, on top of the full-time job, and it was an extremely stressful situation. And as the years and months went by, I was sleeping less and less, and I definitely suffered intestinally. The constipation got much more severe during that time period.
Lindsey:
I wanted you to share about that because I just did a previous podcast on stress. And yours was one of these sorts of textbook situations where yes, you might have had H. pylori and been okay with it. But I guess you were having symptoms in any case, but they got a lot worse when you were under stress. And then on the Organic Acids Test, you had some slightly elevated yeast levels, and elevated bacterial levels, in particular with closdridia, and the marker for C. difficile or Clostridium difficile. And then you had an elevated oxalate marker, which can happen when there’s excess yeast. You know, it’s normally about 3- 5% of the gut microbiome. And then low levels of a few of the B vitamins. And then most notably, you had low levels of all of the organic acids that show the levels of your neurotransmitters, that is the dopamine, epinephrine and norepinephrine, also known as adrenaline and noradrenaline, and serotonin. So yeah, you mentioned a little bit about being depressed, was there any other mental health symptoms that you were having that those markers brought to light?
Ann Marie:
Yeah, I definitely think that the depression and low mood and my energy was just horrible. And I was attributing it to the additional stress of my mother’s care, on top of work. But I will tell you that I really wish that I had had someone that I was in contact with, that I trusted that could have said, you know, you really need to find out what’s going on inside. And because I had worked with the medical community and gone back and forth to the doctor for this issue, I thought that I was doing the best I could for my body. And then those tests revealed to me that there was so much critical information to how I was feeling that my traditional doctors could not or never suggested to look for. So, it was really an eye opener, and I came to this route, because the frustration of not knowing, number one, so I started researching online. And I’m also a little bit cynical about what I’m reading, like, is this accurate information? So, quite honestly, the podcast really helped. It really helped because you were interviewing and talking to people on The Perfect Stool, who were medical professionals who were talking about patients that had symptoms like me, or had helped patients by suggesting certain dietary changes and adding certain supplements. And I’m thinking, my goodness, this is really eye opening. There’s lots of people like me, who have this intestinal issue that have not been able to get it resolved. There was so much comfort in that.
Lindsey:
Yeah, yeah. No, it’s good to know you’re not alone in your suffering. So, you had also had some anxiety or some panic attacks before too, didn’t you?
Ann Marie:
I did. Those happened in early January. And you and I had connected about seven months after that. And, you know, the doctor told me that I was severely dehydrated, and I’m a woman who drinks 80+ ounces of water a day and when I think back, if everything that’s going into my stomach in my intestines is not being processed properly by my body, it may have been. I gave him a hard time and said, what are you talking about? I drink so much water all the time. And they had done two bags of intravenous, and I still didn’t need to pee. So, he said, that’s a sure sign that you are severely dehydrated. And it sorts of makes sense. Things were not functioning well at all for me.
Lindsey:
Yeah. Okay, so when you came to get help with your gut, did you have any idea that we might also be working on your mental health?
Ann Marie:
I did not. But I was intelligent enough to realize that the gut issues were bringing me down. Because I’m a physically active person. And if you haven’t been able to move your bowels for four or five days, it’s very hard to take a walk and enjoy that walk. So yes, I suspected that it was just strictly related to the lack of being able to move my bowels but soon learned from the testing that it was it was bigger than that.
Lindsey:
So, then at that point before we even started doing much with your gut other than just that Atrantil (find in my Fullscript Dispensary), which is just a polyphenol product, I taught you about how to use the amino acids to bring up your levels of neurotransmitters. And once you started to use them in that way, how did your mental state change?
Ann Marie:
Yeah, I would say the thing that’s important to notice, every time you taught me about a new supplement, I didn’t feel results within 48 hours or three days like other kinds of prescriptions prescribed by the medical world had done, you know, solving things within 48 hours. I will say, the supplements took some time. But once they started to work, and it was probably about 10 days after, the ones that were directed from my mood, I could feel the change. And it was amazing. It was amazing. I hadn’t felt that positive or uplifted in a very long time. So, it felt great. Awesome.
Lindsey:
So, in terms of intervening on the gut health stuff, while we were working to support your gut immunity and bring up your secretory IgA with a product called MegaIgG, which is derived from colostrum and S Boulardii Probiotics, and then we were also working on your stomach acid levels with the Betaine HCl and digestive enzymes, I had you adding more fiber to your diet by increasing your intake of beans and legumes. And before that you had had trouble with fiber, hadn’t you?
Ann Marie:
Yes, I did. So when you and I met, one of the things that I enjoyed was eating a salad or other vegetables, raw vegetables, and it was nearly impossible because I would eat my small salad, and then I would really be suffering because I had tried to eat raw vegetables, and that has changed. I can comfortably eat raw vegetables now. And high fiber foods like that. The beans and the legumes that I continue to eat probably every other day.
Lindsey:
Now do you remember why we did that? Why I had you do that.
Ann Marie:
Yes, I questioned you and asked you if I had to continue to do that. I don’t know if you recall that.
Lindsey:
I’m sure you questioned me. You questioned me about everything. You let me get away with nothing.
Ann Marie:
You had recommended that I try and eat the beans every day. At least I think it was a quarter of a cup. I can’t recall.
Lindsey:
Sometimes I tell people a half a cup, it depends on how large you are and you’re a pretty small woman. So I can’t remember if I told you a half or a quarter.
Ann Marie:
Yeah. But initially, when I had to eat them, it was difficult. And then as things got better, feeling better, I very easily could eat them every day. No problem at all now.
Lindsey:
Yeah. And the reason we did that, though, was to start feeding the good bugs in your gut, to start growing the healthy bacteria in preparation for killing the H. pylori so that there would be something there to take over when it started heading out.
So, I think you’d agree that one of the biggest changes came when I taught you about how H pylori can be eradicated using mastic gum, which is a natural and gentle alternative to the triple therapy that the doctors use, which consists of like two antibiotics and a proton pump inhibitor. So how did you feel after the H pylori was gone?
Ann Marie:
Even the process of healing, you worked on healing my intestinal lining I believe first, even that made a difference. And then we moved towards getting rid of the H. pylori. And once again, I just want to say it’s not an overnight 24-hour fix. You know, it takes a commitment to stay the course. But I find it very hard to believe that if I went the traditional route to get rid of the H. pylori, that I would feel as good as I do now. I can’t imagine that multiple antibiotics would have left me feeling so good. After a couple weeks of those I can’t imagine it would have resolved a lot of what was going on, just that alone.
Lindsey:
Well, I think the danger with the antibiotics is that you wipe out all of the bacteria, not just the H. pylori, and then you end up with an overgrowth of yeast, and that’s where I find a lot of people, they come to me after that process has happened not necessarily for H. pylori, but just from antibiotics in general. And on your original Organic Acids Test, there was some slightly elevated yeast levels to begin with, as well as the elevated clostridia and streptococcus. And so, after that I taught you about the Biocidin products and grapefruit seed extract to work on those. And those were a bit stronger and, my recollection is you didn’t have a very good reaction when you were on those. Can you tell everyone a little bit about that?
Ann Marie:
Yeah, so the supplements that you just recommended, I followed your recommendation to increase them as you told me titrate up, because I found that if I went to the full dosage recommended, I would really feel the difference with the grapefruit seed extract. I really felt really awful. It’s almost like a slight flu symptom that I would get when the supplement wasn’t working or agreeing with me off the bat. But I did hang in and say, okay, I might feel a little uncomfortable for a day or two. But it’s going to get me to the next level or a better place. And that’s important information. The initial introduction of some of the supplements I really felt. And I don’t think everybody probably experiences the same thing. But I hung in there believing that you were setting me on the right path. And it definitely made a difference. It was so worth it to stay the course and do the recommended suggestions that you had given me in our calls.
Lindsey:
So when you get on supplements that are my antimicrobial, and in particular, when they fight yeast, you can have these die off reactions where you’re getting all of the byproducts of dead microbes going through your system. And sometimes it happens too fast. So I usually warn people, when you start if there’s any problems like that flu-like reaction to just stop (that’s a Herxheimer reaction), to just stop taking them and let that pass. And to take something like a GI Detox (find in my Fullscript Dispensary) or an activated charcoal in order to absorb the byproducts of the die off. Then those will be ushered out of your body. And then you can resume so that you don’t have too strong a reaction.
Ann Marie:
Right, right. And as you said, you recommend to other people, you also recommended the activated charcoal for me. And it definitely helped on more than one occasion to have that available that it was in my house. So if I felt like I was really feeling uncomfortable, and the supplement was causing the discomfort that the activated charcoal really did take the edge off and help me through it.
Lindsey:
Yeah. So, during the time we worked together, I had you use a variety of different probiotics. When I met you, you were already taking Visbiome, which is the new name VSL#3. And then some of the other ones that you used were the BioKult, ProFlora 4R which is a spore based probiotic, and S Boulardii, which is a beneficial yeast. So, do you have any sense of the role that the probiotics played in your healing or any that you particularly liked?
Ann Marie:
Well, you know, it’s really hard. I can’t say clearly because I had a regime of many other supplements happening at the same time. So, I do not know the last one that you recommended, is it Mega 2000?
Lindsey:
Megasporebiotic?
Ann Marie:
Yes. I mean, that’s the only one that I can distinctly say, I really like taking because a lot of the other supplements I took for maybe eight weeks or 12 weeks, and then they were weaned out of my schedule. But taking so many at the same time was a bit overwhelming. I felt pill crazy. You know, I was trying to keep track of them, which I did, because I really wanted to get well. But it was hard to know, unless I introduced something new into the schedule. It was hard to know which ones were making me feel good, bad or different. Other than the mood, the mood ones I knew right away, you know, within a week to 10 days that they were really helping how I felt.
Lindsey:
Yeah. So, we started working together like nine months ago. And now I’m a lot more thoughtful about people doing one thing at a time so they really can tell how each thing contributes. That’s one change that I made since then.
Ann Marie:
Yeah, I think that the process has taught me that I have a very sensitive body and digestive tract. I really think that maybe others would not have had the same reactions because everybody’s body is so different.
Lindsey:
I have noticed that, yeah, people completely differ. There’s some people who just don’t feel like they could have H pylori. Not even feel it like they literally don’t know. So, it can affect people differently. Now that you’ve had some time for your gut to settle after the final round of supplements, how are you feeling?
Ann Marie:
I feel terrific. And I try not to question why I didn’t do it sooner, you know, jump on board sooner when I started to learn about this different process to heal my problems. But you know, I’m an older, more mature person. And when I’ve had medical issues, my doctor has been able to help me resolve them. So I was hanging on to that thought process and listening to podcasts and reading about digestion issues. It took me a while to walk over the bridge to a different way of healing, you might say. And I can only say that I highly recommend to other people now not to wait to deal with your gut issues, because it makes a huge difference. I feel like I’m living again, I’m not analyzing everything I eat or stressing because I can’t eat something. I’m so much more knowledgeable. So, working with you, It’s like a private education in digestive health. It really was. I’ve learned so much through this process. You know, when I first started working with you, it almost felt like a foreign language. But I have a better understanding. I don’t know, I can’t tell you exactly what supplement did what. But I do know that each one was beneficial along this path to healing.
Lindsey:
Yeah, you were a good sport about taking a lot of pills. And you know, some people are just like, for many reasons, sometimes it’s finances in terms of being able to get all the same supplements at once, sometimes it’s more just the logistics, and sometimes it’s they can’t fit them in at certain times of the day. So, you know, I am flexible with different people, depending on those that situations. You seemed to be game to stick with whatever schedule. And so I threw everything but the kitchen sink at you to get you better as fast as possible.
Ann Marie:
Yeah. And I desperately wanted to heal. I mean, it had been years. And you know, I was so worn down from the process. I mean, when you have digestive issues, it’s an ongoing crisis, I guess, and what happened to me was the ongoing digestive problems became my normal. And it’s really sad when you sort of just shrug your shoulders and say, “Oh, well, this is my life, you know, I guess I can’t have a bowel movement for four days.” You know, it’s just a very bad thing. So, I was I was really excited that when we first stepped in, and I got some diagnosis, that there was a possibility that I could get to a better place. And I was committed to that, as you know.
Lindsey:
Yeah. And I appreciated your commitment and follow through because not everybody does exactly what I recommend.
Ann Marie:
But you’re absolutely right. I mean, it’s really important that your readers know that it is definitely a commitment, but it is so worth it at the end of the line. It is so worth it to have a healthy gut.
Lindsey:
Yeah. So I want to circle back about the oxalates. I’m not sure how much I’ve talked about oxalates before on the podcast, so I did want to just give a little background on that. Because oxalate and its acid form oxalic acid is an organic acid that comes from the food you eat and from the metabolism of fungi like Aspergillus, Penicillium and Candida, and then through normal human metabolism. But it’s really acidic, and it’s like what they actually use to remove rust from car radiators. And so most of the stones in the body like gallstones and kidney stones are made of calcium oxalate. And then the oxalate crystals can form in other places in the body, like they can form those stones. But wherever they form, they can cause pain and damage and increased inflammation because they’re like sharp crystals. So, that can take place in the bones where they can crowd out bone marrow cells and cause anemia and immunosuppression, it can happen in the joints causing joint pain, it can happen in the blood vessels where they can cause damage. In the thyroid, like if you’ve had a thyroid nodule, at the root of it could be an oxalate crystal that your body is trying to cover up. They can cause urinary tract infections by making small cuts in the urinary tract that the bacteria can infect, they can cause vulvodynia (vulvar pain) and then even in the lungs and brain, they can interfere with normal functioning. And you had a history of gallstones and then you also showed an elevated oxalate marker. And you were also avoiding dairy products. So, my recollection is that I taught you about how taking calcium citrate with meals can help absorb excess oxalates and usher them out of the body. And then I think I suggested you move to more moderate oxalate diet. So, do you remember doing that and the foods that you were eating that were high in oxalates and the changes you might have made?
Ann Marie:
Yes, absolutely, I was I was eating a lot of dark leafy greens, thinking that they really good for me, lots of blueberries, and nuts. I think it was almonds. But I will say that I didn’t realize that that could be causing the problem. Obviously, this whole process has been a learning experience. And the terminology, even listening to your podcast, The Perfect Stool, the terminology between you and the doctors, or the guests that you’re talking to. Many times, I would go to the internet and Google the terms so that I could get a better understanding. And I understand what you’re telling me now. But it’d be very difficult for me to tell you correctly, exactly what the supplement is. And that’s another reason to work with you. Because I’m an art director, I have expertise in my field. But this is so far away from my field. And your expertise can teach people so much more about what their body’s doing. And those tests are so revealing.
Lindsey:
You did pinpoint those leafy greens, like the kale and spinach and nuts, and the blueberries and such that people think are healthy. So were you able to reduce those kinds of foods in your diet for a time?
Ann Marie:
I did, I did. I was much more careful about choosing other vegetables, because I know from being a healthy eater that vegetables are very important in our diet. And so I switched more to broccoli and cabbage and things that didn’t cause that situation to happen.
Lindsey:
Yeah. And once your yeast levels come down, usually your body can handle the amount of oxalate that’s produced. So some people in the long term do have to pay more attention to it. And especially if you start seeing like those initial things like UTIs, or urinary tract infections, that’s kind of one of those early markers that you might be starting to have problems with oxalates. So some people do have to watch it in the long term, but generally, it’s the elevated levels of yeast that are causing the excess oxalates. And then of course, if you have a meal with dairy, then you don’t have to worry about it. But for people who avoid dairy like I do, I’ll take a calcium citrate with each meal that has oxalates in it.
Ann Marie:
Yes, yes. I’m doing okay. As far as dairy consumption, I find that if I eat less of it, I feel a lot more comfortable. I do indulge and I have it maybe once a week, but I do stay away from it. Because I like feeling really good.
Lindsey:
And you stay away from gluten too, right?
Ann Marie:
I do. I’m gluten-free. And that’s something that I was doing before we met right. And then I was taking some dairy out. But after we met, and you educating me on trying to eliminate the dairy for at least a time. And noticing the difference was amazing. I have so much less mucus in my sinuses, in my throat now that I’m not consuming dairy even every other day. I mean, it’s amazing.
Lindsey:
That’s exactly how I feel without dairy. I say dairy is bad for me in all sorts of different ways. But you were pretty typical of my clients, which is to say you were you already were eating a very healthy diet. And I find that by the time people come and see me, they have already done a lot of the dietary stuff. So, I don’t usually put really stringent dietary demands. But I do often suggest reducing gluten and dairy. Now if you know that you have the gene for lactase persistence, and you know that you can digest the lactose, and you don’t seem to react to dairy, then I might not necessarily say to get rid of that unless someone has an autoimmune condition, in which case I usually like to see the dairy and the gluten and sugar and such go away.
What was it like communicating with me over email between our sessions?
Ann Marie:
Well, I will say that you were very prompt; you normally responded to me within 24 hours, you know, and I often reached out because I would feel the differences with the new supplements and I just wanted to be assured that that’s pretty normal to feel that way. And, you know, that titrating up carefully and slowly was the way to do things. And then I would double check with you if taking the activated charcoal would help a situation that I was feeling, so that was really important to know that I was going to get an answer quickly. I wasn’t wondering if Lindsey was ever going to get back to me, I don’t think that ever happened to me in this whole process.
Lindsey:
I hope not. Okay. Any advice to anyone who might be sitting on the fence about getting some professional help with their gut problems?
Ann Marie:
Yes, yes. I think that even if you have to, like I did on occasion, charge the supplements, you are worth the investment. The change of quality of life is so big. It’s so worth it. Everything is better when you’re digesting your foods properly and able to go the bathroom properly, whether it’s diarrhea or constipation, or indigestion, acid reflux, and all those uncomfortable things that we put up with every single day. I wish somebody had given me a pep talk and said, Look, take care of your health, spend the money on yourself, and get yourself to a healthier place. It’s worth every penny.
Lindsey:
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing about this. Any final words that you want to say? Or was that it?
Ann Marie:
I think that’s it. And I wish anybody who’s thinking about entering the process, the best of luck. And once again, encourage them not to hesitate, to go ahead and start working on yourself.
If you’re struggling with constipation or other gut health problems and are ready to get some professional help, you’re welcome to set up a free, 30-minute breakthrough session with me. We’ll talk about what you’ve been going through and I’ll tell you about my gut health coaching 5-appointment program in which I recommend lab tests, educate you on what the results mean and the protocols used by doctors to fix the problems revealed. Or if you’re ready to jump in right away or can just afford one appointment at a time, you can set up an 1-hour consultation with me.
